<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: x = x &#8211; 1</title>
	<atom:link href="http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/</link>
	<description>ideas for improving Bible translations</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 02:38:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Three days and three nights &#124; Another weblog</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16876</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Three days and three nights &#124; Another weblog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Apr 2010 15:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is a Semitic idiom. The Hebrew language makes use of parallelism and repetition, and this is an example of this—there shouldn’t be a strict, English-minded interpretation of the ‘three nights’. There are [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a Semitic idiom. The Hebrew language makes use of parallelism and repetition, and this is an example of this—there shouldn’t be a strict, English-minded interpretation of the ‘three nights’. There are [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Numbers in the Bible &#171; Theological Reflections</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16503</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Numbers in the Bible &#171; Theological Reflections]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 02/02/2010 &#183; Leave a Comment  Good article taken from http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/16/numbers-in-the-bible/ and http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 02/02/2010 &middot; Leave a Comment  Good article taken from <a href="http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/16/numbers-in-the-bible/" rel="nofollow">http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/16/numbers-in-the-bible/</a> and <a href="http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/" rel="nofollow">http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/</a>. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joel H.</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16492</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joel H.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;I say stick with &quot;eighth day&quot; and stop trying to over translate.&lt;/i&gt;

But what if &quot;eighth day&quot; in English refers to a different day than it does in Hebrew?

We find something similar in Modern Hebrew/Modern English.  In Modern Hebrew, &lt;I&gt;erev&lt;/i&gt; means &quot;evening.&quot;  Because &lt;i&gt;yom rishon&lt;/i&gt; means &quot;Sunday,&quot; &lt;i&gt;erev yom rishon&lt;/i&gt; means &quot;Sunday evening.&quot; Most of the other days work the same way. But even though &lt;i&gt;shabat&lt;/i&gt; means &quot;Saturday,&quot; &lt;i&gt;erev shabat&lt;/i&gt; doesn&#039;t mean &quot;Saturday night,&quot; it means &quot;Friday night.&quot;  Surely a translation from Modern Hebrew into English shouldn&#039;t translate literally, but rather should find English that refers to the right day, no?  (&quot;Saturday night&quot; is &lt;i&gt;motza&#039;ei shabat,&lt;/i&gt; &quot;exit of the Sabbath.&quot;)

-&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.GodDidntSayThat.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joel&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I say stick with &#8220;eighth day&#8221; and stop trying to over translate.</i></p>
<p>But what if &#8220;eighth day&#8221; in English refers to a different day than it does in Hebrew?</p>
<p>We find something similar in Modern Hebrew/Modern English.  In Modern Hebrew, <i>erev</i> means &#8220;evening.&#8221;  Because <i>yom rishon</i> means &#8220;Sunday,&#8221; <i>erev yom rishon</i> means &#8220;Sunday evening.&#8221; Most of the other days work the same way. But even though <i>shabat</i> means &#8220;Saturday,&#8221; <i>erev shabat</i> doesn&#8217;t mean &#8220;Saturday night,&#8221; it means &#8220;Friday night.&#8221;  Surely a translation from Modern Hebrew into English shouldn&#8217;t translate literally, but rather should find English that refers to the right day, no?  (&#8220;Saturday night&#8221; is <i>motza&#8217;ei shabat,</i> &#8220;exit of the Sabbath.&#8221;)</p>
<p>-<a href="http://www.GodDidntSayThat.com" rel="nofollow">Joel</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Simmons</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Simmons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps a little off-topic, but I think I remember in high school learning that zero was originally invented by the Mayans. Their calendar may or may not have predicted this blog post, also.

And just to be clear: I have met nonbelievers who consider the Bible illogical because they assume an exclusive counting, in which Friday to Sunday is not &quot;three days.&quot; So translating it as &quot;two days later&quot; is important. I just think Mack Powell of the Christian band Third Day may feel strange about this translation trend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps a little off-topic, but I think I remember in high school learning that zero was originally invented by the Mayans. Their calendar may or may not have predicted this blog post, also.</p>
<p>And just to be clear: I have met nonbelievers who consider the Bible illogical because they assume an exclusive counting, in which Friday to Sunday is not &#8220;three days.&#8221; So translating it as &#8220;two days later&#8221; is important. I just think Mack Powell of the Christian band Third Day may feel strange about this translation trend.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: iver larsen</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[iver larsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS.
I should have mentioned 1 Samuel 30:1, because here we see the following:
GNB suddenly decides to go for &quot;Two days later&quot; as GW has.
NLT goofed and said &quot;Three days later&quot;.

The Good News Bible is floundering, and it seems that the only one that got it right almost all the time is God&#039;s Word. CEV also made a mistake in this place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS.<br />
I should have mentioned 1 Samuel 30:1, because here we see the following:<br />
GNB suddenly decides to go for &#8220;Two days later&#8221; as GW has.<br />
NLT goofed and said &#8220;Three days later&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Good News Bible is floundering, and it seems that the only one that got it right almost all the time is God&#8217;s Word. CEV also made a mistake in this place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: iver larsen</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16414</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[iver larsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16414</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Johannes,
You are quite right that it will be a break with tradition to produce a meaningful translation of the Bible, but that tradition is gradually being broken anyway by a number of modern translations.
You have a choice.
You can honour tradition above good and clear communication or you can honour communication above tradition.
You cannot do both.

By the way, it would not be good to translate &quot;on the third day&quot; with &quot;on the second day&quot;. In most contexts, the correct translation would be two days later.
As an example take the first time &quot;on the third day&quot; appears in the Bible, i.e. Gen 22:4.

CEV says &quot;three days later&quot; - wrong!!!
God&#039;s Word says &quot;Two days later&quot; - right!!
Most others keep to the tradition which is not English:
&quot;On the third day&quot;.

When you come to Gen 31:22, lo and behold, GW still says &quot;two days later&quot; - Bravo!
NET, NLT, GNB, and CEV all say &quot;three days later&quot;. Why the change of heart?
Why are so many getting it wrong? I guess because they honestly think that &quot;on the third day&quot; actually is supposed to mean &quot;three days later.&quot;

Gen 42:17-18 is interesting. Here GW says:
Then he put them in jail for three days. On the third day Joseph said to them,...

This is a context where &quot;on the third day&quot; may be used, because it refers to the third day of a given period. &quot;On my third day in hospital&quot; does refer to two days after I was admitted. &quot;My third day in prison&quot; is two days after I was committed. But, the problem is the the previous sentence which says that he put them in jail for three days. That is not very clear to me. If they were to stay in jail for three days, then in terms of English they would be released on the fourth day, but in terms of Genesis and Hebrew, they would be released on the third day.

In Lev 7:16 &quot;the third day&quot; can also be used, so it depends on context. For any translator &quot;context is king&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Johannes,<br />
You are quite right that it will be a break with tradition to produce a meaningful translation of the Bible, but that tradition is gradually being broken anyway by a number of modern translations.<br />
You have a choice.<br />
You can honour tradition above good and clear communication or you can honour communication above tradition.<br />
You cannot do both.</p>
<p>By the way, it would not be good to translate &#8220;on the third day&#8221; with &#8220;on the second day&#8221;. In most contexts, the correct translation would be two days later.<br />
As an example take the first time &#8220;on the third day&#8221; appears in the Bible, i.e. Gen 22:4.</p>
<p>CEV says &#8220;three days later&#8221; &#8211; wrong!!!<br />
God&#8217;s Word says &#8220;Two days later&#8221; &#8211; right!!<br />
Most others keep to the tradition which is not English:<br />
&#8220;On the third day&#8221;.</p>
<p>When you come to Gen 31:22, lo and behold, GW still says &#8220;two days later&#8221; &#8211; Bravo!<br />
NET, NLT, GNB, and CEV all say &#8220;three days later&#8221;. Why the change of heart?<br />
Why are so many getting it wrong? I guess because they honestly think that &#8220;on the third day&#8221; actually is supposed to mean &#8220;three days later.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gen 42:17-18 is interesting. Here GW says:<br />
Then he put them in jail for three days. On the third day Joseph said to them,&#8230;</p>
<p>This is a context where &#8220;on the third day&#8221; may be used, because it refers to the third day of a given period. &#8220;On my third day in hospital&#8221; does refer to two days after I was admitted. &#8220;My third day in prison&#8221; is two days after I was committed. But, the problem is the the previous sentence which says that he put them in jail for three days. That is not very clear to me. If they were to stay in jail for three days, then in terms of English they would be released on the fourth day, but in terms of Genesis and Hebrew, they would be released on the third day.</p>
<p>In Lev 7:16 &#8220;the third day&#8221; can also be used, so it depends on context. For any translator &#8220;context is king&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Johannes Argentus</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johannes Argentus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Additionally, I agree with Brad, because if we don&#039;t tranlate literally &quot;the eigth day&quot; for circumcision, then if we want to be consistent we should start talking about resurrection &quot;on the second day&quot;, just breaking 2000 years of tradition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Additionally, I agree with Brad, because if we don&#8217;t tranlate literally &#8220;the eigth day&#8221; for circumcision, then if we want to be consistent we should start talking about resurrection &#8220;on the second day&#8221;, just breaking 2000 years of tradition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Johannes Argentus</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16410</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johannes Argentus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The way Jews counted days in the Bible is crystal clear from the references in the NT to Jesus&#039; resurrection as taking place &quot;on the third day&quot;:
- Friday (before sunset) = 1st day
- Saturday = 2nd day
- Sunday morning = 3rd day.
Therefore, if from the resurrection &quot;on the 3rd day&quot;, we have to go back 2 days to arrive to the date of Jesus&#039; death, from the circumcision on the 8th day we have to go back 7 days to arrive to the date of birth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way Jews counted days in the Bible is crystal clear from the references in the NT to Jesus&#8217; resurrection as taking place &#8220;on the third day&#8221;:<br />
- Friday (before sunset) = 1st day<br />
- Saturday = 2nd day<br />
- Sunday morning = 3rd day.<br />
Therefore, if from the resurrection &#8220;on the 3rd day&#8221;, we have to go back 2 days to arrive to the date of Jesus&#8217; death, from the circumcision on the 8th day we have to go back 7 days to arrive to the date of birth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: When 3=2 &#124; TimothyArcher.com/Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16408</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[When 3=2 &#124; TimothyArcher.com/Kitchen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] a couple of posts by Iver Larsen on numbers in the Bible. His second post discussed &#8220;inclusive counting,&#8221; which we can especially see in the way the Bible expresses the concept of days and their [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a couple of posts by Iver Larsen on numbers in the Bible. His second post discussed &#8220;inclusive counting,&#8221; which we can especially see in the way the Bible expresses the concept of days and their [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2010/01/17/x-x-1/#comment-16396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Leman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=4065#comment-16396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brad wrote:

&lt;i&gt;I say stick with “eighth day” and stop trying to over translate.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s a matter of accuracy of translation for English speakers. If &quot;eighth day&quot; communicates one day more than a week to English speakers then it is not an accurate translation. Translating accurately is not over translation.

This issue can be easily resolved by asking a large number of speakers of English, from a variety of backgrounds, including those who are not familiar with Jewish inclusive counting, what &quot;on the 8th day&quot; would mean to them. Would it mean one week later, or 8 days later?

We should never had to modify English to create accurate translations for English speakers. Each language is capable, on its own, of accurately translating the Bible, without having to be modified.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad wrote:</p>
<p><i>I say stick with “eighth day” and stop trying to over translate.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a matter of accuracy of translation for English speakers. If &#8220;eighth day&#8221; communicates one day more than a week to English speakers then it is not an accurate translation. Translating accurately is not over translation.</p>
<p>This issue can be easily resolved by asking a large number of speakers of English, from a variety of backgrounds, including those who are not familiar with Jewish inclusive counting, what &#8220;on the 8th day&#8221; would mean to them. Would it mean one week later, or 8 days later?</p>
<p>We should never had to modify English to create accurate translations for English speakers. Each language is capable, on its own, of accurately translating the Bible, without having to be modified.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

