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	<title>Comments on: OK, Mr. Schlafly &#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/</link>
	<description>ideas for improving Bible translations</description>
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		<title>By: rainnatiehalo</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-17248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rainnatiehalo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 01:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-17248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tv game mobile games http://www.orderphonetoday.com/g1-quad-band-single-card-with-bluetooth--item94.html complete windows mobile registry &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.orderphonetoday.com/a890-dual-band-single-card-with-dvb-t-tv--item27.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;s60 mobile softwares&lt;/a&gt; carston mobile homes]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tv game mobile games <a href="http://www.orderphonetoday.com/g1-quad-band-single-card-with-bluetooth--item94.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.orderphonetoday.com/g1-quad-band-single-card-with-bluetooth&#8211;item94.html</a> complete windows mobile registry <a href="http://www.orderphonetoday.com/a890-dual-band-single-card-with-dvb-t-tv--item27.html" rel="nofollow">s60 mobile softwares</a> carston mobile homes</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Translating Luke 2:14 &#171; Better Bibles Blog</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Translating Luke 2:14 &#171; Better Bibles Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Rhodes comments about information flow on this blog go a long way toward helping us understand the strange order of the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rhodes comments about information flow on this blog go a long way toward helping us understand the strange order of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Bailey on information structure in the GNT &#171; NT Discourse</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Bailey on information structure in the GNT &#171; NT Discourse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is one other excerpt from JJ from Rich Rhodes of UC Berkley who served as external examiner on the committee: We all recognized that Nick’s [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is one other excerpt from JJ from Rich Rhodes of UC Berkley who served as external examiner on the committee: We all recognized that Nick’s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Simmons</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15887</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Simmons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gender-neutral translations cannot by any means change the Greek text itself, nor its cultural nuances of patriarchy. I think they could be acceptable, so long as they do not become the only translation type. (In other words, I don&#039;t want for the ESV to be likened to the Cotton Patch)

I don&#039;t think any translation philosophy is truly practical. But if TNIV-style becomes the &lt;i&gt;least impractical&lt;/i&gt;, then I will deal with that. There are flaws to translating the generic masculine as a plural though. What do you do with statements when it might &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; be generic, for instance?

James 1:20 is an example where it might be generic. It&#039;s obviously a proverbial expression. It says, rigidly, &quot;for the wrath of a man does not work the righteousness of God.&quot;

What if it&#039;s referring to that testosterone-laden aggression of men? Then, I&#039;d translate it &quot;For &#039;manly anger does not serve God&#039;s purpose.&quot;

If it&#039;s generically inclusive there, then I could make a wittier translation. &quot;For human anger does not engender divine justice.&quot; Taking both andros and theou as qualitative nouns.

If egalitarians will mirror read for 1 Timothy 2, then I (a complementarian) might mirror read here a problem with anger among males. However, I prefer the qualitative reading, because it just sounds more proverbial. Wrath and righteousness are contrasted, so it makes sense for &quot;man&quot; and &quot;deity&quot; to be in contrast here, too.

P.S. I agree with Brant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gender-neutral translations cannot by any means change the Greek text itself, nor its cultural nuances of patriarchy. I think they could be acceptable, so long as they do not become the only translation type. (In other words, I don&#8217;t want for the ESV to be likened to the Cotton Patch)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think any translation philosophy is truly practical. But if TNIV-style becomes the <i>least impractical</i>, then I will deal with that. There are flaws to translating the generic masculine as a plural though. What do you do with statements when it might <i>not</i> be generic, for instance?</p>
<p>James 1:20 is an example where it might be generic. It&#8217;s obviously a proverbial expression. It says, rigidly, &#8220;for the wrath of a man does not work the righteousness of God.&#8221;</p>
<p>What if it&#8217;s referring to that testosterone-laden aggression of men? Then, I&#8217;d translate it &#8220;For &#8216;manly anger does not serve God&#8217;s purpose.&#8221;</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s generically inclusive there, then I could make a wittier translation. &#8220;For human anger does not engender divine justice.&#8221; Taking both andros and theou as qualitative nouns.</p>
<p>If egalitarians will mirror read for 1 Timothy 2, then I (a complementarian) might mirror read here a problem with anger among males. However, I prefer the qualitative reading, because it just sounds more proverbial. Wrath and righteousness are contrasted, so it makes sense for &#8220;man&#8221; and &#8220;deity&#8221; to be in contrast here, too.</p>
<p>P.S. I agree with Brant.</p>
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		<title>By: Wes</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15886</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15886</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very clever; really.

It was my impression that the Bible, especially the OT was written by Middle Eastern Men in a Middle Eastern culture.  I never viewed them and still don&#039;t as being pro feminist. If people today want to use the Bible to show that God viewed women as less than, then shame on them.

.  Its a matter of accurate translation reflecting the speaker which my guess wasn&#039;t particularly PC at the time let alone now, BUT this only causes a disconnect if you believe GOD wrote every word in the Bible.  I doubt the speakers usually addressed groups as brothers and sisters, but I could be wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very clever; really.</p>
<p>It was my impression that the Bible, especially the OT was written by Middle Eastern Men in a Middle Eastern culture.  I never viewed them and still don&#8217;t as being pro feminist. If people today want to use the Bible to show that God viewed women as less than, then shame on them.</p>
<p>.  Its a matter of accurate translation reflecting the speaker which my guess wasn&#8217;t particularly PC at the time let alone now, BUT this only causes a disconnect if you believe GOD wrote every word in the Bible.  I doubt the speakers usually addressed groups as brothers and sisters, but I could be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Brant</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wes,

One might wonder the same thing about conservatives and their &quot;gender accurate&quot; translations.

It is my observation that gender neutral translations are not that neutral and gender accurate translations are not that accurate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wes,</p>
<p>One might wonder the same thing about conservatives and their &#8220;gender accurate&#8221; translations.</p>
<p>It is my observation that gender neutral translations are not that neutral and gender accurate translations are not that accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: Wes</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am often wonder when I hear liberals talking about gender neutrality, that their goal isn&#039;t necessarily accuracy at all costs in their translations and that a bit of post modernism creeps in.  Sort of we wish it said this and it would be fairer and nice so maybe it could be translated this way and therefore must be what the original speaker meant.  I&#039;m not saying this is happening, just wondering.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am often wonder when I hear liberals talking about gender neutrality, that their goal isn&#8217;t necessarily accuracy at all costs in their translations and that a bit of post modernism creeps in.  Sort of we wish it said this and it would be fairer and nice so maybe it could be translated this way and therefore must be what the original speaker meant.  I&#8217;m not saying this is happening, just wondering.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Kirk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like Rich I have been &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gentlewisdom.org.uk/?p=1513&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;travelling across Europe&lt;/a&gt;, in my case by car and with my new wife. And I have also been noting translation-related oddities. This is one I noticed at the hotel where we stopped for the night, in France near the Swiss border at Basle.

Flipping through the TV channels we found an American documentary with French subtitles. They were interviewing people about a woman involved in some crime. When the narrator and an official wearing a tie said in good formal American English that the woman worked in two places, the subtitles used the formal French verb &lt;i&gt;travailler&lt;/i&gt; &quot;work&quot;. But when a bus driver spoke in colloquial English about the woman&#039;s two places of work, although he also used the English word &quot;work&quot;, the subtitles used the colloquial French verb &lt;i&gt;bosser&lt;/i&gt;. It was obviously hard for the translators to indicate in brief subtitles that the bus driver was speaking colloquially, but they did an excellent job by choosing to use &lt;i&gt;bosser&lt;/i&gt; - even though they could be accused of lacking concordance and consistency.

Perhaps this kind of translation strategy is needed also in Bible translation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Rich I have been <a href="http://www.gentlewisdom.org.uk/?p=1513" rel="nofollow">travelling across Europe</a>, in my case by car and with my new wife. And I have also been noting translation-related oddities. This is one I noticed at the hotel where we stopped for the night, in France near the Swiss border at Basle.</p>
<p>Flipping through the TV channels we found an American documentary with French subtitles. They were interviewing people about a woman involved in some crime. When the narrator and an official wearing a tie said in good formal American English that the woman worked in two places, the subtitles used the formal French verb <i>travailler</i> &#8220;work&#8221;. But when a bus driver spoke in colloquial English about the woman&#8217;s two places of work, although he also used the English word &#8220;work&#8221;, the subtitles used the colloquial French verb <i>bosser</i>. It was obviously hard for the translators to indicate in brief subtitles that the bus driver was speaking colloquially, but they did an excellent job by choosing to use <i>bosser</i> &#8211; even though they could be accused of lacking concordance and consistency.</p>
<p>Perhaps this kind of translation strategy is needed also in Bible translation.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Simmons</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15881</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Simmons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15881</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sort of off topic, but... I recently decided to make a prayer Bible. Basically, I ask my friends of a passage that speaks to them, and I write their name by it. I say a quick prayer for that friend every time I read that passage.

And that I Timothy quote is my passage that I gave for others to write my name by.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sort of off topic, but&#8230; I recently decided to make a prayer Bible. Basically, I ask my friends of a passage that speaks to them, and I write their name by it. I say a quick prayer for that friend every time I read that passage.</p>
<p>And that I Timothy quote is my passage that I gave for others to write my name by.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: J. K. Gayle</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/12/08/ok-mr-schlafly/#comment-15880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. K. Gayle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3777#comment-15880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Did that answer your question?&lt;/i&gt;

ja, Rich, antwoordde u perfect!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Did that answer your question?</i></p>
<p>ja, Rich, antwoordde u perfect!</p>
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