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	<title>Comments on: Thinking about Scripture</title>
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		<title>By: Ross Stockwell</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-16697</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ross Stockwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Hi Folks
This is a general question / observation concerning the genitive case in Koine Greek. After many years looking at this subject it appears that Koine has some eight or so aspects of the Genitive case these are determined by the immediate context in which they appear. In most cases the state of the Genitive is determine by the qualifying noun / verb of the immediate context. There seems to be no inflection involved but the state of the genitive is worked out according to its immediate context and definite noun. The following “the gospel of the grace of God” and “the dispensation of the grace of God” contain the same genitive case words i.e. tes chariots tou Thou but is there a difference? Can we assume the same general idea of possession i.e. that grace is gods possession? The assumption that we can is decided on English assumptions, the original case of Koine is made to fit English assumptions given that English has basically four cases independent of the definite article; Possession, Apposition, Objective and Partitive. Koine has Eight or so conected  to the definite article; Origin / Place, Ruling, Possession, Character / Quality, Relation, Apposition, Partition, Contents.

The above phrase  “the gospel of the grace of God”. Here Gospel is qualified by the accusative neuter &quot;to&quot; followed by  two genitives qualifiers. “the administration of the grace of God” Here administration is the accusative feminine &quot;ten&quot; followed by the same two genitives. Both nouns seem to determine the aspect of the genitive; The gospel is message that has contents while administration is passively internal and actively external management. Both nouns seem to answer to their genitive string, “of the grace” genitive of contents  and “of [the] God” is genitive of the origin as it pertains to the gospel it contents and origin. The other “of the grace” genitive of the ruling principal and of [the] God is genitive of possession this pertains to the dispensation requires a managing or governing principal this is the possession of God.Inheritance is the subject of the Book of Ephesians. 

The impotence of English to distinguish clearly the genitive case aspects of the Koine have been widely recognized but little commented upon out side of the various editions of the Greek texts. Most readers of the English translations are not aware of these mechanisms, the reason that much is quoted out of context. For example. Romans 6:23 “The wages of Sin is death” has been translated from; “tes amartias” the  “genitive of quality” in koine, to the English “objective genitive” “of Sin” placing the emphasis on sin. In the original texts the gentive of the quality gives rise to the latent genitive of the ruling principal i.e. death. The thematic aorist root “amart” of amartias connects all sin to the curse due to Adam&#039;s fall and the ruling principal of death that entered the kosmos. Many assume that death is earned by sinning however, this error denies what is revealed as death and the free gift are passive to all human effort.  Death is earned by birthright and Adamic descent, life as the free gift of Elohim by grace.

It was recognised by older scholars and notes are often made in the Greek texts that indicate that correct rendering in English is difficult.   This occurs as koine has case structure connected to definite articles but English does not and the English definite “the” does not answer to the koine. 

For Example in Ephesians 1 there are about 4 or so definite in koine but in English the KJV has translated 14… Koine Case is powerful instrument of emphasis and context but forms more towards syntax than towards etymology. Modern Koine Greek studies spend much time, as rule, upon etymology however, if the genitive aspects are not considered then error must logically be the result.   I present this for some discussion and if this pattern is correct then perhaps for more accuracy these genitive aspects and there following strings need to be better qualified in English editions.

Keep well 
RJ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Folks<br />
This is a general question / observation concerning the genitive case in Koine Greek. After many years looking at this subject it appears that Koine has some eight or so aspects of the Genitive case these are determined by the immediate context in which they appear. In most cases the state of the Genitive is determine by the qualifying noun / verb of the immediate context. There seems to be no inflection involved but the state of the genitive is worked out according to its immediate context and definite noun. The following “the gospel of the grace of God” and “the dispensation of the grace of God” contain the same genitive case words i.e. tes chariots tou Thou but is there a difference? Can we assume the same general idea of possession i.e. that grace is gods possession? The assumption that we can is decided on English assumptions, the original case of Koine is made to fit English assumptions given that English has basically four cases independent of the definite article; Possession, Apposition, Objective and Partitive. Koine has Eight or so conected  to the definite article; Origin / Place, Ruling, Possession, Character / Quality, Relation, Apposition, Partition, Contents.</p>
<p>The above phrase  “the gospel of the grace of God”. Here Gospel is qualified by the accusative neuter &#8220;to&#8221; followed by  two genitives qualifiers. “the administration of the grace of God” Here administration is the accusative feminine &#8220;ten&#8221; followed by the same two genitives. Both nouns seem to determine the aspect of the genitive; The gospel is message that has contents while administration is passively internal and actively external management. Both nouns seem to answer to their genitive string, “of the grace” genitive of contents  and “of [the] God” is genitive of the origin as it pertains to the gospel it contents and origin. The other “of the grace” genitive of the ruling principal and of [the] God is genitive of possession this pertains to the dispensation requires a managing or governing principal this is the possession of God.Inheritance is the subject of the Book of Ephesians. </p>
<p>The impotence of English to distinguish clearly the genitive case aspects of the Koine have been widely recognized but little commented upon out side of the various editions of the Greek texts. Most readers of the English translations are not aware of these mechanisms, the reason that much is quoted out of context. For example. Romans 6:23 “The wages of Sin is death” has been translated from; “tes amartias” the  “genitive of quality” in koine, to the English “objective genitive” “of Sin” placing the emphasis on sin. In the original texts the gentive of the quality gives rise to the latent genitive of the ruling principal i.e. death. The thematic aorist root “amart” of amartias connects all sin to the curse due to Adam&#8217;s fall and the ruling principal of death that entered the kosmos. Many assume that death is earned by sinning however, this error denies what is revealed as death and the free gift are passive to all human effort.  Death is earned by birthright and Adamic descent, life as the free gift of Elohim by grace.</p>
<p>It was recognised by older scholars and notes are often made in the Greek texts that indicate that correct rendering in English is difficult.   This occurs as koine has case structure connected to definite articles but English does not and the English definite “the” does not answer to the koine. </p>
<p>For Example in Ephesians 1 there are about 4 or so definite in koine but in English the KJV has translated 14… Koine Case is powerful instrument of emphasis and context but forms more towards syntax than towards etymology. Modern Koine Greek studies spend much time, as rule, upon etymology however, if the genitive aspects are not considered then error must logically be the result.   I present this for some discussion and if this pattern is correct then perhaps for more accuracy these genitive aspects and there following strings need to be better qualified in English editions.</p>
<p>Keep well<br />
RJ</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15778</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich Rhodes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LeRoy,
It might be helpful to be explicit about what we mean by translation. Let&#039;s see if this is a correct characterization:

You believe that translation is the process of matching words part for part (morpheme for morpheme) between Greek and English. At least, this is what it appears to me you mean.

If so, that&#039;s where the problem lies. We believe that translation is what translators do between modern languages and therefore the principles of that kind of translation should be applied to Bible translation.

One of these principles is that word for word translation is completely inadequate, let alone morpheme for morpheme translation. A clear demonstration of that can be found in &lt;a href=&quot;http://betterbibles.com/2006/10/15/whats-the-joke/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;one of my earlier posts&lt;/a&gt;.

I realize that there is a belief in some quarters that only word for word translation is &quot;safe&quot;. If that&#039;s what you think, then let&#039;s talk about that, rather than trading barbs about the proper translation of particular words, when we believe in very different principles of translation.

BTW, I think there is no place to hide in translation. There is no safe way to translate. And there are certainly no shortcuts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LeRoy,<br />
It might be helpful to be explicit about what we mean by translation. Let&#8217;s see if this is a correct characterization:</p>
<p>You believe that translation is the process of matching words part for part (morpheme for morpheme) between Greek and English. At least, this is what it appears to me you mean.</p>
<p>If so, that&#8217;s where the problem lies. We believe that translation is what translators do between modern languages and therefore the principles of that kind of translation should be applied to Bible translation.</p>
<p>One of these principles is that word for word translation is completely inadequate, let alone morpheme for morpheme translation. A clear demonstration of that can be found in <a href="http://betterbibles.com/2006/10/15/whats-the-joke/" rel="nofollow">one of my earlier posts</a>.</p>
<p>I realize that there is a belief in some quarters that only word for word translation is &#8220;safe&#8221;. If that&#8217;s what you think, then let&#8217;s talk about that, rather than trading barbs about the proper translation of particular words, when we believe in very different principles of translation.</p>
<p>BTW, I think there is no place to hide in translation. There is no safe way to translate. And there are certainly no shortcuts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[reply to Wayne Leman 
Thank you for your consideration, and I concur, to read and understand Greek requires taking Greek classes or carefully doing self-study with Greek textbooks such as ones by Mounce, Wallace, and others.
I use the MSS and have hard copies of the Codex Vaticanus (B), Codex Sinaiticus, Alexandrius, Beza 1565, Erasmus 1516 with his concordance, Stephanus 1550 Received Text, The New Testament in the Original Greek by Wescott &amp; Hort, and also the 4th Edition by Arlan, Black, Martini, Metzger and Wikgren just to mention a few.

I also like to compare the Strong’s as well as Blass, Gr. of N. T.΄Moulton, Burton, N. T. M., Robinson, Greisbach, Scrivener’s Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus, as well as Smyth Greek Grammer, Bullinger, and others.

LSJ says: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ A. [select] turning upside down, upsetting, overthrow, E.Fr. 301 (pl.); μοῖραν εἰς ἀ. δίδωσι, = ἀναστρέφει, Id.Andr.1007; disorder, confusion, Posidipp.26.22.
Strong’s Greek Dictionary kinda gives a vague meaning επιτιμάω to mete out due measure, hence to censure
Robert’s Grammar: Lesson 37 The Genitive Absolute. Supplementary Participle 290. Vocabulary. Ο! επιτιµάω, I rebuke (with dat.) …rebuke, 6; rebuked, 13; rebuking,

biblicalgreek, Intermediate Greek Gospel: Mark (GRE 312) eπιτιμάω (9-29) rebuke, reprove, censure

Smith’s Bible Dictionary (1884) ; Jushabhesed change of mercy Hitchcock’s Bible Names Dictionary (1869); returner Easton’s Bible Dictionary
I also find the Strong 99% of the time gives the correct meaning, but the translators, such as KJV, NASB, NIV etc, choose not the correct word but one of the other less meaningful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>reply to Wayne Leman<br />
Thank you for your consideration, and I concur, to read and understand Greek requires taking Greek classes or carefully doing self-study with Greek textbooks such as ones by Mounce, Wallace, and others.<br />
I use the MSS and have hard copies of the Codex Vaticanus (B), Codex Sinaiticus, Alexandrius, Beza 1565, Erasmus 1516 with his concordance, Stephanus 1550 Received Text, The New Testament in the Original Greek by Wescott &amp; Hort, and also the 4th Edition by Arlan, Black, Martini, Metzger and Wikgren just to mention a few.</p>
<p>I also like to compare the Strong’s as well as Blass, Gr. of N. T.΄Moulton, Burton, N. T. M., Robinson, Greisbach, Scrivener’s Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus, as well as Smyth Greek Grammer, Bullinger, and others.</p>
<p>LSJ says: <a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/</a> A. [select] turning upside down, upsetting, overthrow, E.Fr. 301 (pl.); μοῖραν εἰς ἀ. δίδωσι, = ἀναστρέφει, Id.Andr.1007; disorder, confusion, Posidipp.26.22.<br />
Strong’s Greek Dictionary kinda gives a vague meaning επιτιμάω to mete out due measure, hence to censure<br />
Robert’s Grammar: Lesson 37 The Genitive Absolute. Supplementary Participle 290. Vocabulary. Ο! επιτιµάω, I rebuke (with dat.) …rebuke, 6; rebuked, 13; rebuking,</p>
<p>biblicalgreek, Intermediate Greek Gospel: Mark (GRE 312) eπιτιμάω (9-29) rebuke, reprove, censure</p>
<p>Smith’s Bible Dictionary (1884) ; Jushabhesed change of mercy Hitchcock’s Bible Names Dictionary (1869); returner Easton’s Bible Dictionary<br />
I also find the Strong 99% of the time gives the correct meaning, but the translators, such as KJV, NASB, NIV etc, choose not the correct word but one of the other less meaningful.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Leman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;This is not just about me or an exegesis by myself. Just read the actual Greek. You can look on this Blog and see the Dictionaries I have given. I thought you were able to use more than one dictionary and decipher the Greek simply by parsing or by going to a number of translations and comparing them agaist each other.&lt;/i&gt;

We cannot understand the Greek very well by using dictionaries, parsing, and comparing English translations. To read and understand Greek requires taking Greek classes or carefully doing self-study with Greek textbooks such as ones by Mounce, Wallace, and others.

On this blog we prefer that people who post about facts in the biblical languages do so based on formal study of the languages, not on lay helps such as Strong&#039;s number system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This is not just about me or an exegesis by myself. Just read the actual Greek. You can look on this Blog and see the Dictionaries I have given. I thought you were able to use more than one dictionary and decipher the Greek simply by parsing or by going to a number of translations and comparing them agaist each other.</i></p>
<p>We cannot understand the Greek very well by using dictionaries, parsing, and comparing English translations. To read and understand Greek requires taking Greek classes or carefully doing self-study with Greek textbooks such as ones by Mounce, Wallace, and others.</p>
<p>On this blog we prefer that people who post about facts in the biblical languages do so based on formal study of the languages, not on lay helps such as Strong&#8217;s number system.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15769</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Leman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LeRoy, what Gary was responding to was your own negative comments toward others who use other exegetical tools. As a blog administrator, I, too, have been concerned about some of your put-downs toward others. They do fit the blogging guidelines which you have quoted to Gary.

Constructive criticism is welcome by anyone on this blog. But sarcasm and put-downs are not. Let&#039;s all learn from each other here and practice gracious speech.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LeRoy, what Gary was responding to was your own negative comments toward others who use other exegetical tools. As a blog administrator, I, too, have been concerned about some of your put-downs toward others. They do fit the blogging guidelines which you have quoted to Gary.</p>
<p>Constructive criticism is welcome by anyone on this blog. But sarcasm and put-downs are not. Let&#8217;s all learn from each other here and practice gracious speech.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gary, Mat I remind you...POSTING GUIDELINES&gt;
Do not question the intelligence, spirituality, beliefs, or motives of anyone, INCLUDING Bible translation teams or those who post or comment on this blog. (5) Avoid sarcasm; it seldom makes a positive contribution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, Mat I remind you&#8230;POSTING GUIDELINES&gt;<br />
Do not question the intelligence, spirituality, beliefs, or motives of anyone, INCLUDING Bible translation teams or those who post or comment on this blog. (5) Avoid sarcasm; it seldom makes a positive contribution.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gary Simmons said: &quot;LeRoy, What’s truly astounding is that you never cite any dictionaries of Koine Greek. &quot;. unquote

Did you mean:   pseudo exegesis?  I suppose you could &quot;translate&quot; λειτουργος as liturgy but that would be a desynchronizing where the real translation is to act as a public functionary or you could take &quot;η προσφορα των εθνων&quot; to mean &quot;the prosphora of the nations&quot; instead of offering. 

This is not just about me or an exegesis by myself. Just read the actual Greek. You can look on this Blog and see the Dictionaries I have given. I thought you were able to use more than one dictionary and decipher the Greek simply by parsing or by going to a number of translations and comparing them agaist each other.
Here are some I have used (Jashub) (he turns)., Od.13.326, Smith’s Bible Dictionary (1884) ; Jushabhesed change of mercy Hitchcock’s Bible Names Dictionary (1869); returner Easton’s Bible Dictionary
demon abode, haunt, “δαιμονων αναστροφη” Aesch. Eum. 23.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ says:
αναστροφη a turning upside down, upsetting

English translation by Herbert Weir Smyth, Ph. D. in two volumes. 2.Eumenides. Cambridge. Cambridge, Mass., Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann, Ltd. 1926. II. [select] dwelling in a place, Plu.2.216a.

Here are the usages of what ἀναστρέφω meant in Homer or the LXX or the NT. Passive, vtr.
reverse vtr (put opposite side up or out) αναστρέφω ρ.μετ.
invert vtr (turn upside down) τα πάνω κάτω αναστρέφω, ανατρέπω, αναποδογυρίζω ρ.μετ.

S.Ant.226; πολλὰς ἀ. ποιούμενος, of a hunter, making many casts backward, X. Cyn.6.25; wheeling round, of a horse, Id.Eq.Mag.3.14; of soldiers in battle, whether to flee or rally, Id.Cyr.5.4.8; “μηκέτι δοῦναι αὐτοῖς ἀ.” time to rally, Id.HG4.3.6, cf. Ages.2.3; esp. of the reversal of a wheeling movement, Ascl.Tact.10.6, Ael.Tact.25.7, Arr.Tact.21.4; of a ship, Th.2.89; “ἐξ ἀ.” turning back, Plb.4.54.4; “κατ᾽ ἀναστροφήν” conversely, S.E.M.7.430.

3. [select] in Gramm., throwing back of the accent, as in Prepositions after their case, A.D.Synt.308.15, etc.
303 ανά per;Up, through, by, whilst,each
4762 στρέφω To turn; to turn round, or about; to twist, bend; to return; to convert 

LSJ says: A. [select] turning upside down, upsetting, overthrow, E.Fr. 301 (pl.); μοῖραν εἰς ἀ. δίδωσι, = ἀναστρέφει, Id.Andr.1007; disorder, confusion, Posidipp.26.22.
Strong’s Greek Dictionary kinda gives a vague meaning επιτιμάω to mete out due measure, hence to censure

1909 εφ’ επ’ επι towards, upon after, against for, on, over
τιμάω to fix the value, to price, forfeit, fine, penalty; loss

2008 επιτιμώ, reprimanded,to adjudge, award, in the sense of merited penalty, reprove, censure
Robert’s Grammar: Lesson 37 The Genitive Absolute. Supplementary Participle 290. Vocabulary. Ο! επιτιµάω, I rebuke (with dat.) …rebuke, 6; rebuked, 13; rebuking,

biblicalgreek, Intermediate Greek Gospel: Mark (GRE 312) eπιτιμάω (9-29) rebuke, reprove, censure]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary Simmons said: &#8220;LeRoy, What’s truly astounding is that you never cite any dictionaries of Koine Greek. &#8220;. unquote</p>
<p>Did you mean:   pseudo exegesis?  I suppose you could &#8220;translate&#8221; λειτουργος as liturgy but that would be a desynchronizing where the real translation is to act as a public functionary or you could take &#8220;η προσφορα των εθνων&#8221; to mean &#8220;the prosphora of the nations&#8221; instead of offering. </p>
<p>This is not just about me or an exegesis by myself. Just read the actual Greek. You can look on this Blog and see the Dictionaries I have given. I thought you were able to use more than one dictionary and decipher the Greek simply by parsing or by going to a number of translations and comparing them agaist each other.<br />
Here are some I have used (Jashub) (he turns)., Od.13.326, Smith’s Bible Dictionary (1884) ; Jushabhesed change of mercy Hitchcock’s Bible Names Dictionary (1869); returner Easton’s Bible Dictionary<br />
demon abode, haunt, “δαιμονων αναστροφη” Aesch. Eum. 23.<br />
<a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/</a> says:<br />
αναστροφη a turning upside down, upsetting</p>
<p>English translation by Herbert Weir Smyth, Ph. D. in two volumes. 2.Eumenides. Cambridge. Cambridge, Mass., Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann, Ltd. 1926. II. [select] dwelling in a place, Plu.2.216a.</p>
<p>Here are the usages of what ἀναστρέφω meant in Homer or the LXX or the NT. Passive, vtr.<br />
reverse vtr (put opposite side up or out) αναστρέφω ρ.μετ.<br />
invert vtr (turn upside down) τα πάνω κάτω αναστρέφω, ανατρέπω, αναποδογυρίζω ρ.μετ.</p>
<p>S.Ant.226; πολλὰς ἀ. ποιούμενος, of a hunter, making many casts backward, X. Cyn.6.25; wheeling round, of a horse, Id.Eq.Mag.3.14; of soldiers in battle, whether to flee or rally, Id.Cyr.5.4.8; “μηκέτι δοῦναι αὐτοῖς ἀ.” time to rally, Id.HG4.3.6, cf. Ages.2.3; esp. of the reversal of a wheeling movement, Ascl.Tact.10.6, Ael.Tact.25.7, Arr.Tact.21.4; of a ship, Th.2.89; “ἐξ ἀ.” turning back, Plb.4.54.4; “κατ᾽ ἀναστροφήν” conversely, S.E.M.7.430.</p>
<p>3. [select] in Gramm., throwing back of the accent, as in Prepositions after their case, A.D.Synt.308.15, etc.<br />
303 ανά per;Up, through, by, whilst,each<br />
4762 στρέφω To turn; to turn round, or about; to twist, bend; to return; to convert </p>
<p>LSJ says: A. [select] turning upside down, upsetting, overthrow, E.Fr. 301 (pl.); μοῖραν εἰς ἀ. δίδωσι, = ἀναστρέφει, Id.Andr.1007; disorder, confusion, Posidipp.26.22.<br />
Strong’s Greek Dictionary kinda gives a vague meaning επιτιμάω to mete out due measure, hence to censure</p>
<p>1909 εφ’ επ’ επι towards, upon after, against for, on, over<br />
τιμάω to fix the value, to price, forfeit, fine, penalty; loss</p>
<p>2008 επιτιμώ, reprimanded,to adjudge, award, in the sense of merited penalty, reprove, censure<br />
Robert’s Grammar: Lesson 37 The Genitive Absolute. Supplementary Participle 290. Vocabulary. Ο! επιτιµάω, I rebuke (with dat.) …rebuke, 6; rebuked, 13; rebuking,</p>
<p>biblicalgreek, Intermediate Greek Gospel: Mark (GRE 312) eπιτιμάω (9-29) rebuke, reprove, censure</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Simmons</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15764</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Simmons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LeRoy, What&#039;s truly astounding is that you never cite any dictionaries of Koine Greek. And I find it offensive that you feel it&#039;s OK to attack the motives and credibility of translators as a whole, and of individuals who have worked hard to make lexicons. You cited someone, then you said he didn&#039;t really know what he was talking about.

Rich, I&#039;d ask you to please do something about this pseudexegesis. Really, it detracts from the environment of this blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LeRoy, What&#8217;s truly astounding is that you never cite any dictionaries of Koine Greek. And I find it offensive that you feel it&#8217;s OK to attack the motives and credibility of translators as a whole, and of individuals who have worked hard to make lexicons. You cited someone, then you said he didn&#8217;t really know what he was talking about.</p>
<p>Rich, I&#8217;d ask you to please do something about this pseudexegesis. Really, it detracts from the environment of this blog.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Bible is written so that you can speak on the level of the person to whom you are addressing. The shortfall is not in the Bible but in the translators, who, wishing to impress colleges, relaced the ordinary words with their seemingly higher learning.

If, instead of making the translation more difficult, they would adhere to the actual wording it would enhance the understanding of all.

The ambiguous translation of what the soldiers did to Jesus is one of the more revealing words, &quot;osculate&quot; a humorous kiss, to φιλεω make fun of him.

The soldiers free salt which many try to say is a salary; &quot;μισθός&quot; ME: from Anglo-Norman Fr. salarie, from L. salarium, orig. denoting a Roman soldier&#039;s allowance for free salt, from sal &#039;salt&#039;. 

Even more astounding is the &quot;group of people working together&quot; πλήρωμα, ME, in sense &#039;band of soldiers&#039;: from OFr. creue (crew)&#039;augmentation, increase&#039;, feminine past participle of croistre &#039;grow&#039;, from L. crescer
Hdt.8.43,45; but, of single ships, complement, crew, make up the full number of citizens, Arist.Pol.1267b16, 1284a5, cf. 1291a17, Pl.R.371e; τω̂ν φίλων π. ἀθροίσας E.Ion664 ; gang of workmen, PPetr.3p.130 (iii B. C.). reserves of troops, στρατιω̂ν Lyd.Mag.3.44 (pl.). 
  
Which shines more light on the crew of people who are working for God.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bible is written so that you can speak on the level of the person to whom you are addressing. The shortfall is not in the Bible but in the translators, who, wishing to impress colleges, relaced the ordinary words with their seemingly higher learning.</p>
<p>If, instead of making the translation more difficult, they would adhere to the actual wording it would enhance the understanding of all.</p>
<p>The ambiguous translation of what the soldiers did to Jesus is one of the more revealing words, &#8220;osculate&#8221; a humorous kiss, to φιλεω make fun of him.</p>
<p>The soldiers free salt which many try to say is a salary; &#8220;μισθός&#8221; ME: from Anglo-Norman Fr. salarie, from L. salarium, orig. denoting a Roman soldier&#8217;s allowance for free salt, from sal &#8216;salt&#8217;. </p>
<p>Even more astounding is the &#8220;group of people working together&#8221; πλήρωμα, ME, in sense &#8216;band of soldiers&#8217;: from OFr. creue (crew)&#8217;augmentation, increase&#8217;, feminine past participle of croistre &#8216;grow&#8217;, from L. crescer<br />
Hdt.8.43,45; but, of single ships, complement, crew, make up the full number of citizens, Arist.Pol.1267b16, 1284a5, cf. 1291a17, Pl.R.371e; τω̂ν φίλων π. ἀθροίσας E.Ion664 ; gang of workmen, PPetr.3p.130 (iii B. C.). reserves of troops, στρατιω̂ν Lyd.Mag.3.44 (pl.). </p>
<p>Which shines more light on the crew of people who are working for God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Re-thinking the Bible &#171; Aberration blog</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/23/thinking-about-scripture/#comment-15754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Re-thinking the Bible &#171; Aberration blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3748#comment-15754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] KJV, The Message, word of God. Leave a Comment  Reading a recent post at Better Bibles Blog titled Thinking about Scripture, the writer mentions that  someone claimed a hard to understand Bible isn&#8217;t problematic. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] KJV, The Message, word of God. Leave a Comment  Reading a recent post at Better Bibles Blog titled Thinking about Scripture, the writer mentions that  someone claimed a hard to understand Bible isn&#8217;t problematic. [...]</p>
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