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	<title>Comments on: This is definitely about Bible translation</title>
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		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15733</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Be that as it may, howver, The literal Greek text reads: 
“In beginning was the word, and the word was WITH REGARD TO the God, and God was the word.”
Just as in John the definition of προς = regarding (with regard to) προς τούτοις, άλλωστε; with regard to
concerning, regarding; which See regarding. → headword © Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

Etymology: A strengthened form of πρό G4253; Preposition πρός Category: Ancient Greek prepositions A preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated):. In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards.

When the article is used in the predicate the article is due to a previous mention of the noun (as well known or prominent) or to the fact that subject and predicate are identical. Cf. Donaldson, New Crat., p. 522; Middleton, Gk. Art., p. 54.
The words that are identical are convertible as in the older idiom.
Thompson, Synt., p. 46.
Moulton’s rule of identity and convertibility apply. In a word, then, when the article occurs with subject (or the subject is a personal pronoun or proper name) and predicate, both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable. The usage applies to substantives, adjectives and participles indifferently. Moulton MOULTON, W. F., and GEDEN, A. S., A Concordance to the Greek Testament (1897).

The accusative case (or objective case) is used to indicate the direct object of a verb, the objective complement, the complement of certain exclamatory words and their modifiers and appositives.
και θυ ην ο λογος and God WAS the word (Direct object) The accusative may also indicate the indirect object after certain verbs: WAS

While it is true that there is no indefinite article (‘a’, or ‘an’) in the original Greek text, this is because Koine Greek had no indefinite article in the language. Thus, translators are required to use the indefinite article, or not, based on their understanding of the text.

Haenchen goes on to state: “In this instance, the verb ‘was’ ([en]) simply expresses predication. And the predicate noun must accordingly be more carefully observed: [the•os′] is not the same thing as [ho the•os′] (‘divine’ is not the same thing as ‘God’).” Other scholars, such as Philip B. Harner elaborate on the grammatical construction found here. (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) 2001

If one is articular and the other is a proper name (GOD) or a pronoun, then both are definite and interchangeable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be that as it may, howver, The literal Greek text reads:<br />
“In beginning was the word, and the word was WITH REGARD TO the God, and God was the word.”<br />
Just as in John the definition of προς = regarding (with regard to) προς τούτοις, άλλωστε; with regard to<br />
concerning, regarding; which See regarding. → headword © Oxford University Press 1995, 2002</p>
<p>Etymology: A strengthened form of πρό G4253; Preposition πρός Category: Ancient Greek prepositions A preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated):. In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards.</p>
<p>When the article is used in the predicate the article is due to a previous mention of the noun (as well known or prominent) or to the fact that subject and predicate are identical. Cf. Donaldson, New Crat., p. 522; Middleton, Gk. Art., p. 54.<br />
The words that are identical are convertible as in the older idiom.<br />
Thompson, Synt., p. 46.<br />
Moulton’s rule of identity and convertibility apply. In a word, then, when the article occurs with subject (or the subject is a personal pronoun or proper name) and predicate, both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable. The usage applies to substantives, adjectives and participles indifferently. Moulton MOULTON, W. F., and GEDEN, A. S., A Concordance to the Greek Testament (1897).</p>
<p>The accusative case (or objective case) is used to indicate the direct object of a verb, the objective complement, the complement of certain exclamatory words and their modifiers and appositives.<br />
και θυ ην ο λογος and God WAS the word (Direct object) The accusative may also indicate the indirect object after certain verbs: WAS</p>
<p>While it is true that there is no indefinite article (‘a’, or ‘an’) in the original Greek text, this is because Koine Greek had no indefinite article in the language. Thus, translators are required to use the indefinite article, or not, based on their understanding of the text.</p>
<p>Haenchen goes on to state: “In this instance, the verb ‘was’ ([en]) simply expresses predication. And the predicate noun must accordingly be more carefully observed: [the•os′] is not the same thing as [ho the•os′] (‘divine’ is not the same thing as ‘God’).” Other scholars, such as Philip B. Harner elaborate on the grammatical construction found here. (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) 2001</p>
<p>If one is articular and the other is a proper name (GOD) or a pronoun, then both are definite and interchangeable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gary Simmons</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15725</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Simmons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Joel: thank you so much for your comment -- especially the phrasing &quot;inalienable possession.&quot; Now I can put a term to it!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel: thank you so much for your comment &#8212; especially the phrasing &#8220;inalienable possession.&#8221; Now I can put a term to it!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Daryl Campbell</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daryl Campbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The point of referring to the Greek of John 1:1 is that the words for “god” (“God) as well as the word for “word” (Word, Logos) are marked as with the Greek definite articles, except, of course, for the final instance of “god”. Yet we never find word-for-word English Bible versions translating the word for “God” for this verse as “the god”.&quot;
The definite article in Greek is used to point to a specific noun.  In this case it points to a specific god.  In English we can accomplish the same thing by using a capital letter to begin the word - God. This also gives a symmetry to the entire translation.  This is a spiritual work.  The reader, whether a believer or not, understands it as such.  The receivers of the original text were all believers!  They would have no problem understanding that &quot;the god&quot; in question is none other than the God of heaven.  In the translation, with the use of the capital letter &quot;G&quot;, we have no problem understanding it to be the God of heaven.  It actually gives us a more literal meaning of the use of the Greek term than an exact word-for-word translation.
Not even the KJV is an exact word-for-word translation.  There are plenty of uses of idioms, etc.  I think the fear is more of the economy of words used.
Is there any language-to-language translation, modern or ancient, that&#039;s possible to be done word-for-word and have any meaning at all?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The point of referring to the Greek of John 1:1 is that the words for “god” (“God) as well as the word for “word” (Word, Logos) are marked as with the Greek definite articles, except, of course, for the final instance of “god”. Yet we never find word-for-word English Bible versions translating the word for “God” for this verse as “the god”.&#8221;<br />
The definite article in Greek is used to point to a specific noun.  In this case it points to a specific god.  In English we can accomplish the same thing by using a capital letter to begin the word &#8211; God. This also gives a symmetry to the entire translation.  This is a spiritual work.  The reader, whether a believer or not, understands it as such.  The receivers of the original text were all believers!  They would have no problem understanding that &#8220;the god&#8221; in question is none other than the God of heaven.  In the translation, with the use of the capital letter &#8220;G&#8221;, we have no problem understanding it to be the God of heaven.  It actually gives us a more literal meaning of the use of the Greek term than an exact word-for-word translation.<br />
Not even the KJV is an exact word-for-word translation.  There are plenty of uses of idioms, etc.  I think the fear is more of the economy of words used.<br />
Is there any language-to-language translation, modern or ancient, that&#8217;s possible to be done word-for-word and have any meaning at all?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15720</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matthew 24:42-44 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. (43) But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. (44) Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

The teaching in this parable is that it is the MASTERS house and to live without vigilance is to invite disaster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew 24:42-44 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. (43) But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. (44) Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.</p>
<p>The teaching in this parable is that it is the MASTERS house and to live without vigilance is to invite disaster.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joel H.</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15718</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joel H.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few thoughts come to mind:

First, the word &quot;the&quot; is used quite differently in American vs. British English, so even though this forum is &quot;in English,&quot; we surely have at least two distinct dialects, and they use the word &quot;the&quot; differently.  (&quot;Hospital&quot; vs. &quot;the hospital&quot; is one clear example.)


&lt;blockquote&gt;
Perhaps Greek works the same way as English with &quot;house&quot;, &quot;synagogue&quot;, body parts, and other nouns which could be expected to be part of each persons world.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

These are cases of what&#039;s called &quot;inalienable possession,&quot; and you are right that they behave a syntax all their own --- including the fact that &quot;the&quot; is used for possession. A good case in my dialect is &quot;you get the car and I&#039;ll get the kids,&quot; by which I presumably mean &quot;our car&quot; and &quot;our kids.&quot;

In many languages, using overt possessives for inalienable possession is ungrammatical.  For example, in Modern Hebrew, &lt;i&gt;shavarti et haregel,&lt;/i&gt; literally, &quot;I broke the leg,&quot; means &quot;I broke my leg.&quot;  But &lt;i&gt;shavarti et haregel sheli&lt;/i&gt; (&quot;I broke the leg mine&quot;) only means that I purposely broke my leg, perhaps by taking a hammer to it; the phrase with &quot;my&quot; cannot mean that my leg just broke, as it might while skiing, for example.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I dont think that the English definite can be used for generics unless a frame [...] has been triggered
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It depends on context, but the English &quot;the&quot; can indeed sometimes be used generically.  The classic example is &quot;the wolf is returning to Yellowstone Park,&quot; which quite clearly doesn&#039;t mean a lone wolf making the trek across the country; it means &quot;wolves are returning....&quot;

More generally, what we see very clearly is that determiners in different languages work very differently. And even though there&#039;s often considerable overlap, it looks like a methodological mistake to assume that &quot;the&quot; in Greek means the same thing as &quot;the&quot; in English.

-&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.GodDidntSayThat.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joel&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few thoughts come to mind:</p>
<p>First, the word &#8220;the&#8221; is used quite differently in American vs. British English, so even though this forum is &#8220;in English,&#8221; we surely have at least two distinct dialects, and they use the word &#8220;the&#8221; differently.  (&#8220;Hospital&#8221; vs. &#8220;the hospital&#8221; is one clear example.)</p>
<blockquote><p>
Perhaps Greek works the same way as English with &#8220;house&#8221;, &#8220;synagogue&#8221;, body parts, and other nouns which could be expected to be part of each persons world.
</p></blockquote>
<p>These are cases of what&#8217;s called &#8220;inalienable possession,&#8221; and you are right that they behave a syntax all their own &#8212; including the fact that &#8220;the&#8221; is used for possession. A good case in my dialect is &#8220;you get the car and I&#8217;ll get the kids,&#8221; by which I presumably mean &#8220;our car&#8221; and &#8220;our kids.&#8221;</p>
<p>In many languages, using overt possessives for inalienable possession is ungrammatical.  For example, in Modern Hebrew, <i>shavarti et haregel,</i> literally, &#8220;I broke the leg,&#8221; means &#8220;I broke my leg.&#8221;  But <i>shavarti et haregel sheli</i> (&#8220;I broke the leg mine&#8221;) only means that I purposely broke my leg, perhaps by taking a hammer to it; the phrase with &#8220;my&#8221; cannot mean that my leg just broke, as it might while skiing, for example.</p>
<blockquote><p>
I dont think that the English definite can be used for generics unless a frame [...] has been triggered
</p></blockquote>
<p>It depends on context, but the English &#8220;the&#8221; can indeed sometimes be used generically.  The classic example is &#8220;the wolf is returning to Yellowstone Park,&#8221; which quite clearly doesn&#8217;t mean a lone wolf making the trek across the country; it means &#8220;wolves are returning&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>More generally, what we see very clearly is that determiners in different languages work very differently. And even though there&#8217;s often considerable overlap, it looks like a methodological mistake to assume that &#8220;the&#8221; in Greek means the same thing as &#8220;the&#8221; in English.</p>
<p>-<a href="http://www.GodDidntSayThat.com" rel="nofollow">Joel</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Simmons</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15710</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Simmons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15710</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dana: I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly in explaining what I clumsily tried to say. &quot;Into the house&quot; is a syntax construction that just &quot;feels right&quot; or &quot;makes sense&quot; to the Koine speaker.

Lyle: I shudder at that the thought of the translation the literal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dana: I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly in explaining what I clumsily tried to say. &#8220;Into the house&#8221; is a syntax construction that just &#8220;feels right&#8221; or &#8220;makes sense&#8221; to the Koine speaker.</p>
<p>Lyle: I shudder at that the thought of the translation the literal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15706</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Response to Lyle Lange

It is called the Codex Sinaiticus.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Response to Lyle Lange</p>
<p>It is called the Codex Sinaiticus.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lyle Lange</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15697</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lyle Lange]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15697</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Imagine a bible translated where every definite article is included and none added.  The translation would be truly bizarre and arcane.  I am unaware of any bible translation which does this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine a bible translated where every definite article is included and none added.  The translation would be truly bizarre and arcane.  I am unaware of any bible translation which does this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LeRoy</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15694</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeRoy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been wondering why Matthew marked these instances of “house” with a definite article. Then you say, &quot;If I were translating the particular passages in question in Matthew, I would have to translate the phrases with “house” as “a house”.

Notice several chapters later in Matthew 13:1, “The same day went Jesus out of the house,” 
There is a certain symbolism here which speaks of “the house” of Israel. Whereas before, He went INTO the house (and His own received Him not)&quot; Unquote

Now we must consider &quot;the house&quot; as in Jn 5: (14) Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, &quot;See, you have been made well. 
It is a well known fact that after being forgiven sins they went to the temple to pray and give alms to the priest for a spiritual cleansing. 
That would indicate that &quot;the house&quot; was indeed the temple, which was well known by all. 

You then state, &quot;By the way, it is well known to students of Greek that Greek marks more nouns with the definite article than English does. Yet we never find word-for-word English Bible versions translating the word for “God” for this verse as “the god”.&quot; Unquote
As a reader of the Greek you should be well aware that most all the instances where the word God is used, it is &quot;the God&quot;.

While it is true that there is no indefinite article (&#039;a&#039;, or &#039;an&#039;) in the original Greek text, this is because Koine Greek had no indefinite article in the language. Thus, translators are required to use the indefinite article, or not, based on their understanding of the text.

Haenchen goes on to state: “In this instance, the verb ‘was’ ([en]) simply expresses predication. And the predicate noun must accordingly be more carefully observed: [the•os′] is not the same thing as [ho the•os′] (‘divine’ is not the same thing as ‘God’).” Other scholars, such as Philip B. Harner elaborate on the grammatical construction found here. (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) 2001
The literal Greek text reads: “In beginning was the word, and the word was WITH REGARD TO the God, and God was the word.” 
Just as in John the definition of προς = regarding (with regard to) 

If one is articular and the other is a proper name (GOD) or a pronoun, then both are definite and interchangeable. 

to πρόθ. εις, προς, μέχρι, για; towards πρός (για διεύθυνση),// για , με σκοπό, ώστε//
κοντά , περί, πλησίον // έναντι; regarding πρόθ. σχετικώς προς, όσο αφορά; concerning
πρόθ. ως, όσο αφορά, προς, εν σχέσει με, σχετικά με; for για// πρός, // εξαιτίας, καθότι, διότι // χάριν , υπερ// ως , σαν; besides πρόθ. εκτός  επίρ. προς τούτοις, άλλωστε; with regard to
concerning, regarding; which See regarding. → headword © Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

Etymology: A strengthened form of πρό   G4253; Preposition πρός Category: Ancient Greek prepositions A preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward  usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated):. In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards.

See also Jo. 17:17), God is the truth; the truth is God; are convertible terms and the article is quite frequent with the predicate in the N. T. and in strict accord with old usage. It is merely haphazard as Winer implies. 

When the article is used in the predicate the article is due to a previous mention of the noun (as well known or prominent) or to the fact that subject and predicate are identical. Cf. Donaldson, New Crat., p. 522; Middleton, Gk. Art., p. 54.
The words that are identical are convertible as in the older idiom. 
Thompson, Synt., p. 46.
Moulton’s rule of identity and convertibility apply. In a word, then, when the article occurs with subject (or the subject is a personal pronoun or proper name) and predicate, both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable. The usage applies to substantives, adjectives and participles indifferently. Moulton MOULTON, W. F., and GEDEN, A. S., A Concordance to the Greek Testament (1897).

The accusative case (or objective case) is used to indicate the direct object of a verb, the objective complement, the complement of certain exclamatory words and their modifiers and appositives.
και θυ ην ο λογος and God was the word (Direct object) The accusative may also indicate the indirect object after certain verbs: was

οἱ δὲ λαβόντες τὰ ἀργύρια ἐποίησαν ὡς ἐδιδάχθησαν· καὶ ἐφημίσθη ὁ λόγος οὗτος παρὰ Ἰουδαίοις μέχρι τῆς σήμερον. Mt 28:15; 
οι  definite article - nominative plural masculine
ho  ho: ο  definite article - nominative singular masculine ho  ho:  the definite article; λογος  noun - nominative singular masculine
οὗτοι δέ εἰσίν οἱ παρὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ὅπου σπείρεται ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὅταν ἀκούσωσιν εὐθὺς ἔρχεται ὁ σατανᾶς καὶ αἴρει τὸν λόγον τὸν ἐσπαρμένον ἐν αὐτοῖς. Mk 4:15; 
οι  definite article - nominative plural masculine
ho  ho: ο  definite article - nominative singular masculine ho  ho:  the definite article; λογος  noun - nominative singular masculine
καὶ ἐξεπλήσσοντο ἐπὶ τῇ διδαχῇ αὐτοῦ, ὅτι ἐν ἐξουσίᾳ ἦν ὁ λόγος αὐτοῦ. Lu 4:32
ο  definite article - nominative singular masculine ho  ho:  the definite article; λογος  noun - nominative singular masculine
Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been wondering why Matthew marked these instances of “house” with a definite article. Then you say, &#8220;If I were translating the particular passages in question in Matthew, I would have to translate the phrases with “house” as “a house”.</p>
<p>Notice several chapters later in Matthew 13:1, “The same day went Jesus out of the house,”<br />
There is a certain symbolism here which speaks of “the house” of Israel. Whereas before, He went INTO the house (and His own received Him not)&#8221; Unquote</p>
<p>Now we must consider &#8220;the house&#8221; as in Jn 5: (14) Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, &#8220;See, you have been made well.<br />
It is a well known fact that after being forgiven sins they went to the temple to pray and give alms to the priest for a spiritual cleansing.<br />
That would indicate that &#8220;the house&#8221; was indeed the temple, which was well known by all. </p>
<p>You then state, &#8220;By the way, it is well known to students of Greek that Greek marks more nouns with the definite article than English does. Yet we never find word-for-word English Bible versions translating the word for “God” for this verse as “the god”.&#8221; Unquote<br />
As a reader of the Greek you should be well aware that most all the instances where the word God is used, it is &#8220;the God&#8221;.</p>
<p>While it is true that there is no indefinite article (&#8216;a&#8217;, or &#8216;an&#8217;) in the original Greek text, this is because Koine Greek had no indefinite article in the language. Thus, translators are required to use the indefinite article, or not, based on their understanding of the text.</p>
<p>Haenchen goes on to state: “In this instance, the verb ‘was’ ([en]) simply expresses predication. And the predicate noun must accordingly be more carefully observed: [the•os′] is not the same thing as [ho the•os′] (‘divine’ is not the same thing as ‘God’).” Other scholars, such as Philip B. Harner elaborate on the grammatical construction found here. (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) 2001<br />
The literal Greek text reads: “In beginning was the word, and the word was WITH REGARD TO the God, and God was the word.”<br />
Just as in John the definition of προς = regarding (with regard to) </p>
<p>If one is articular and the other is a proper name (GOD) or a pronoun, then both are definite and interchangeable. </p>
<p>to πρόθ. εις, προς, μέχρι, για; towards πρός (για διεύθυνση),// για , με σκοπό, ώστε//<br />
κοντά , περί, πλησίον // έναντι; regarding πρόθ. σχετικώς προς, όσο αφορά; concerning<br />
πρόθ. ως, όσο αφορά, προς, εν σχέσει με, σχετικά με; for για// πρός, // εξαιτίας, καθότι, διότι // χάριν , υπερ// ως , σαν; besides πρόθ. εκτός  επίρ. προς τούτοις, άλλωστε; with regard to<br />
concerning, regarding; which See regarding. → headword © Oxford University Press 1995, 2002</p>
<p>Etymology: A strengthened form of πρό   G4253; Preposition πρός Category: Ancient Greek prepositions A preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward  usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated):. In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards.</p>
<p>See also Jo. 17:17), God is the truth; the truth is God; are convertible terms and the article is quite frequent with the predicate in the N. T. and in strict accord with old usage. It is merely haphazard as Winer implies. </p>
<p>When the article is used in the predicate the article is due to a previous mention of the noun (as well known or prominent) or to the fact that subject and predicate are identical. Cf. Donaldson, New Crat., p. 522; Middleton, Gk. Art., p. 54.<br />
The words that are identical are convertible as in the older idiom.<br />
Thompson, Synt., p. 46.<br />
Moulton’s rule of identity and convertibility apply. In a word, then, when the article occurs with subject (or the subject is a personal pronoun or proper name) and predicate, both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable. The usage applies to substantives, adjectives and participles indifferently. Moulton MOULTON, W. F., and GEDEN, A. S., A Concordance to the Greek Testament (1897).</p>
<p>The accusative case (or objective case) is used to indicate the direct object of a verb, the objective complement, the complement of certain exclamatory words and their modifiers and appositives.<br />
και θυ ην ο λογος and God was the word (Direct object) The accusative may also indicate the indirect object after certain verbs: was</p>
<p>οἱ δὲ λαβόντες τὰ ἀργύρια ἐποίησαν ὡς ἐδιδάχθησαν· καὶ ἐφημίσθη ὁ λόγος οὗτος παρὰ Ἰουδαίοις μέχρι τῆς σήμερον. Mt 28:15;<br />
οι  definite article &#8211; nominative plural masculine<br />
ho  ho: ο  definite article &#8211; nominative singular masculine ho  ho:  the definite article; λογος  noun &#8211; nominative singular masculine<br />
οὗτοι δέ εἰσίν οἱ παρὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ὅπου σπείρεται ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὅταν ἀκούσωσιν εὐθὺς ἔρχεται ὁ σατανᾶς καὶ αἴρει τὸν λόγον τὸν ἐσπαρμένον ἐν αὐτοῖς. Mk 4:15;<br />
οι  definite article &#8211; nominative plural masculine<br />
ho  ho: ο  definite article &#8211; nominative singular masculine ho  ho:  the definite article; λογος  noun &#8211; nominative singular masculine<br />
καὶ ἐξεπλήσσοντο ἐπὶ τῇ διδαχῇ αὐτοῦ, ὅτι ἐν ἐξουσίᾳ ἦν ὁ λόγος αὐτοῦ. Lu 4:32<br />
ο  definite article &#8211; nominative singular masculine ho  ho:  the definite article; λογος  noun &#8211; nominative singular masculine<br />
Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/22/this-is-definitely-about-bible-translation/#comment-15693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Leman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3730#comment-15693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dana wrote:

&lt;i&gt;I can think of saying, “Josh went into the house for a drink of water” without having to first delineate whose house. I don’t think, in contrast, that I could say “He went into the school for a drink of water”, without first clearly establishing that he was at school.&lt;/i&gt;

I get it now, Dana. Thanks. I suspect this is what bzephyr was telling me also.

Perhaps Greek works the same way as English with &quot;house&quot;, &quot;synagogue&quot;, body parts, and other nouns which could be expected to be part of each person&#039;s world. Or, it could be, as some have suggested in this thread, that it was always the same house, perhaps the one where Jesus stayed, and Matthew and his audience knew that that was the house Matthew was referring to.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dana wrote:</p>
<p><i>I can think of saying, “Josh went into the house for a drink of water” without having to first delineate whose house. I don’t think, in contrast, that I could say “He went into the school for a drink of water”, without first clearly establishing that he was at school.</i></p>
<p>I get it now, Dana. Thanks. I suspect this is what bzephyr was telling me also.</p>
<p>Perhaps Greek works the same way as English with &#8220;house&#8221;, &#8220;synagogue&#8221;, body parts, and other nouns which could be expected to be part of each person&#8217;s world. Or, it could be, as some have suggested in this thread, that it was always the same house, perhaps the one where Jesus stayed, and Matthew and his audience knew that that was the house Matthew was referring to.</p>
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