Comments on: blog feedback for CEB Matthew http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/ ideas for improving Bible translations Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:40:31 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: clayboy » Biblical Studies Carnival XLVIII http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15790 clayboy » Biblical Studies Carnival XLVIII Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:21:52 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15790 [...] the CEB came this month with the publication of a draft of Matthew’s gospel. Wayne Leman was first out of the blocks. Some of the initial comment can be found here, here, here and here. Generally people appear [...] [...] the CEB came this month with the publication of a draft of Matthew’s gospel. Wayne Leman was first out of the blocks. Some of the initial comment can be found here, here, here and here. Generally people appear [...]

]]> By: Gary Simmons http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15709 Gary Simmons Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:07:21 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15709 Putting aside my complementarian stance for a moment, "The Human One" still doesn't quite work, since the ben-Adam or bar-Enosh is rather ambiguous. Yes, He may have been referring to Himself as Messiah. But oh, that could refer to any human being. As such, capitalization makes it lose the intentional ambiguity. It's a cryptic term on purpose, so let it remain cryptic. At least, that's my two cents. Putting aside my complementarian stance for a moment, “The Human One” still doesn’t quite work, since the ben-Adam or bar-Enosh is rather ambiguous. Yes, He may have been referring to Himself as Messiah. But oh, that could refer to any human being. As such, capitalization makes it lose the intentional ambiguity.

It’s a cryptic term on purpose, so let it remain cryptic. At least, that’s my two cents.

]]> By: LeRoy http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15609 LeRoy Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:03:29 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15609 Christening βαπτισμοί are Levitical “cleansings” rites of purification was used to indicate the cleansing in symbolism done by the priest of the OT.', 'Baptismós as mere cleansing of instruments was equated with 4473 ράντισμα sprinkling (4473)(found only in Heb. 12:28; 1 Pet. 1:2), Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest He that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 1 Pet. 1:2 Chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Zodhiates, S. (2000, c1992, c1993). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.) (G907). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers. Luke 24:47, Repentance and remission of sins must be preached into my name among all Gentiles. Rom. 7:10, says: Through sin the Law killeth. On the other hand, the Gospel brings consolation and remission not only in one way, but through the word and Sacraments, and the like, as we shall hear afterward in order that [thus] there is with the Lord plenteous redemption, as Ps. 130:7 says against the dreadful captivity of sin. Baptism is nothing else than the Word of God in the water, commanded by His institution, or, as Paul says, a washing in the Word. Baptism was seen as in some sense necessary for salvation, until Huldrych Zwingli His rejection of the sacraments as means of obtaining grace and as forms of intervention between the soul and God underlay the deepened conception of other Reformation leaders such as Bullinger. One of Erasmus’s most eager pupils was Huldrych Zwingli, an influential theologian and a dynamic political leader whose new Protestant religious doctrines, paralleling to some extent those of Martin Luther, fueled the Swiss Reformation.... Zwingli and John Calvin rejected the role of the sacraments in obtaining grace. For Zwingli the bread and the wine were symbols that merely represented the body and blood of Christ, and baptism was more a sign of a Covenant with God than a vehicle of grace. Cross, Frank Leslie; Elizabeth A. Livingstone (2005). "Baptism". The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 151–154. The English word "baptism" has been used in reference to any ceremony, trial, or experience by which one is initiated, purified, or given a name. "“Heavens!” said I, shocked at his impiety, “you have then forgot that Christ was baptised by St. John.” “Friend,” replies the mild Quaker once again, “swear not; Christ indeed was baptised by John, by He himself never baptised anyone. We are the disciples of Christ, not of John.” I pitied very much the sincerity of my worthy Quaker, and was absolutely for forcing him to get himself CHRISTENED." "for we don’t condemn any person who uses it; but then we think that those who profess a religion of so holy, so spiritual a nature as that of Christ, ought to abstain to the utmost of their power from the Jewish ceremonies.” “O unaccountable!” said I: “what! baptism a Jewish ceremony?” “Yes, my friend,” says he, “so truly Jewish, that a great many Jews use the baptism of John to this day. Look into ancient authors, and thou wilt find that John only revived this practice; and that it had been used by the Hebrews, long before his time, in like manner as the Mahometans imitated the Ishmaelites in their pilgrimages to Mecca. Jesus indeed submitted to the baptism of John, as He had suffered Himself to be circumcised; but circumcision and the washing with water ought to be abolished by the baptism of Christ, that baptism of the Spirit, that ablution of the soul, which is the salvation of mankind." "Likewise Paul, the great apostle of the Gentiles, writes as follows to the Corinthians, ‘Christ sent me not to baptise, but to preach the Gospel;’ “But art thou circumcised?” added he. “I have not the honour to be so,” said I. “Well, friend,” continued the Quaker, “thou art a Christian without being circumcised, and I am one without being baptised.” Joseph P. Pickett, ed (2000). "baptism". The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (Fourth ed.). Boston: Houghton Mifflin Mt 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples... Christening βαπτισμοί are Levitical “cleansings” rites of purification was used to indicate the cleansing in symbolism done by the priest of the OT.’, ‘Baptismós as mere cleansing of instruments was equated with 4473 ράντισμα sprinkling (4473)(found only in Heb. 12:28; 1 Pet. 1:2),
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest He that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 1 Pet. 1:2 Chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus
Zodhiates, S. (2000, c1992, c1993). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.) (G907). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.

Luke 24:47, Repentance and remission of sins must be preached into my name among all Gentiles.
Rom. 7:10, says: Through sin the Law killeth. On the other hand, the Gospel brings consolation and remission not only in one way, but through the word and Sacraments, and the like, as we shall hear afterward in order that [thus] there is with the Lord plenteous redemption, as Ps. 130:7 says against the dreadful captivity of sin.
Baptism is nothing else than the Word of God in the water, commanded by His institution, or, as Paul says, a washing in the Word.
Baptism was seen as in some sense necessary for salvation, until Huldrych Zwingli His rejection of the sacraments as means of obtaining grace and as forms of intervention between the soul and God underlay the deepened conception of other Reformation leaders such as Bullinger. One of Erasmus’s most eager pupils was Huldrych Zwingli, an influential theologian and a dynamic political leader whose new Protestant religious doctrines, paralleling to some extent those of Martin Luther, fueled the Swiss Reformation…. Zwingli and John Calvin rejected the role of the sacraments in obtaining grace. For Zwingli the bread and the wine were symbols that merely represented the body and blood of Christ, and baptism was more a sign of a Covenant with God than a vehicle of grace.
Cross, Frank Leslie; Elizabeth A. Livingstone (2005). “Baptism”. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 151–154.
The English word “baptism” has been used in reference to any ceremony, trial, or experience by which one is initiated, purified, or given a name.
““Heavens!” said I, shocked at his impiety, “you have then forgot that Christ was baptised by St. John.” “Friend,” replies the mild Quaker once again, “swear not; Christ indeed was baptised by John, by He himself never baptised anyone. We are the disciples of Christ, not of John.” I pitied very much the sincerity of my worthy Quaker, and was absolutely for forcing him to get himself CHRISTENED.”
“for we don’t condemn any person who uses it; but then we think that those who profess a religion of so holy, so spiritual a nature as that of Christ, ought to abstain to the utmost of their power from the Jewish ceremonies.”

“O unaccountable!” said I: “what! baptism a Jewish ceremony?” “Yes, my friend,” says he, “so truly Jewish, that a great many Jews use the baptism of John to this day. Look into ancient authors, and thou wilt find that John only revived this practice; and that it had been used by the Hebrews, long before his time, in like manner as the Mahometans imitated the Ishmaelites in their pilgrimages to Mecca. Jesus indeed submitted to the baptism of John, as He had suffered Himself to be circumcised; but circumcision and the washing with water ought to be abolished by the baptism of Christ, that baptism of the Spirit, that ablution of the soul, which is the salvation of mankind.”

“Likewise Paul, the great apostle of the Gentiles, writes as follows to the Corinthians, ‘Christ sent me not to baptise, but to preach the Gospel;’
“But art thou circumcised?” added he. “I have not the honour to be so,” said I. “Well, friend,” continued the Quaker, “thou art a Christian without being circumcised, and I am one without being baptised.”
Joseph P. Pickett, ed (2000). “baptism”. The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (Fourth ed.). Boston:
Houghton Mifflin
Mt 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples…

]]> By: LeRoy http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15602 LeRoy Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:37:33 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15602 How is it that some might indicate walking on water to be a literal baptism or the splashing of water on them in the ship to be sufficient? "the Lord did not baptize." "But behold," say some, "the Lord came, and baptized not; for we read, 'And yet He used not to baptize, nor His disciples!' " As if, in truth, John had preached that He would baptize with His own hands! But let not (the fact) that "He Himself baptized not", Into who would he baptize?.. Into the Holy Spirit, who had not yet descended from the Father? Into a congregation, which His apostles had not founded? Let none think it was with some other, because no other exists, except that of Christ subsequently; which at that time, of course, could not be given by His disciples.."how, in accordance with that prescript, salvation is attainable by the apostles, whom--Paul excepted-we do not find baptized in the Lord? Either the peril of all the others who lack the water of Christ is prejudged, that the prescript may be maintained, or else the prescript is rescinded if salvation has been ordained even for the unbaptized. "Thy faith," He would say, "hath saved thee;" and, "Thy sins shall be remitted thee," on thy believing, of course, albeit thou be not yet baptized? Abraham pleased God without being baptized. "Baptism is not necessary for them to whom faith is sufficient; for withal, Abraham pleased God by a sacrament of no water, but of faith." The Lord said, "I have to be baptized with a baptism," when He had been baptized already? (Writings of Tertullian, CHAPTER 11-16) Also Jesus instructed Jn 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also must have to wash one another’s feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. So where do we get to immerse people in water and not wash one another’s feet as instructed by Jesus? Let’s use that gospel with respect and integrity. Who knows what might happen as a result? For the first time in 1500 years, we have the chance to see whether the gospel really does have the power to break into the lives of those who as yet have little or no knowledge of Jesus. How is it that some might indicate walking on water to be a literal baptism or the splashing of water on them in the ship
to be sufficient?
“the Lord did not baptize.”

“But behold,” say some, “the Lord came, and baptized not; for we read, ‘And yet He used not to baptize, nor His disciples!’ ” As if, in truth, John had preached that He would baptize with His own hands! But let not (the fact) that “He Himself baptized not”,
Into who would he baptize?.. Into the Holy Spirit, who had not yet descended from the Father? Into a congregation, which His apostles had not founded? Let none think it was with some other, because no other exists, except that of Christ subsequently; which at that time, of course, could not be given by His disciples..”how, in accordance with that prescript, salvation is attainable by the apostles, whom–Paul excepted-we do not find baptized in the Lord?

Either the peril of all the others who lack the water of Christ is prejudged, that the prescript may be maintained, or else the prescript is rescinded if salvation has been ordained even for the unbaptized.
“Thy faith,” He would say, “hath saved thee;” and, “Thy sins shall be remitted thee,” on thy believing, of course, albeit thou be not yet baptized?
Abraham pleased God without being baptized. “Baptism is not necessary for them to whom faith is sufficient; for withal, Abraham pleased God by a sacrament of no water, but of faith.”

The Lord said, “I have to be baptized with a baptism,” when He had been baptized already? (Writings of Tertullian, CHAPTER 11-16)

Also Jesus instructed Jn 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also must have to wash one another’s feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

So where do we get to immerse people in water and not wash one another’s feet as instructed by Jesus?
Let’s use that gospel with respect and integrity. Who knows what might happen as a result? For the first time in 1500 years, we have the chance to see whether the gospel really does have the power to break into the lives of those who as yet have little or no knowledge of Jesus.

]]> By: Gary Simmons http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15597 Gary Simmons Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:46:33 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15597 15:26f <b>When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified and said, "it's a ghost!" They were so frightened they screamed. Just then Jesus spoke to them, "Calm down. It's me. Don't be afraid."</b> This seems pretty comical to me. Also in verse thirty, Peter cries out "Lord, rescue me!" Generally we'd use the word "save" for that, right? Rescue is a bigger word than save, and unless we're just trying to make sure that "save" is only used in soteriological contexts, I don't see why "rescue" is used instead. 15:26f When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified and said, “it’s a ghost!” They were so frightened they screamed. Just then Jesus spoke to them, “Calm down. It’s me. Don’t be afraid.”

This seems pretty comical to me. Also in verse thirty, Peter cries out “Lord, rescue me!” Generally we’d use the word “save” for that, right? Rescue is a bigger word than save, and unless we’re just trying to make sure that “save” is only used in soteriological contexts, I don’t see why “rescue” is used instead.

]]> By: LeRoy http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15590 LeRoy Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:45:43 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15590 I hope this is not to difficult for some to accept, however, The literal translation of Mt 28:19 "Therefore, going forth apprentice all Gentiles, christening them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: 20 teaching them...." Considering the mistranslation error of the CEB it could hardly be acceptable to baptize a nation, that would take a lot of water. Further, to "make disciples" is not portraying the correct meaning of the word μαθητευσατε, which is to be an apprentice or learner. CEB Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit KJV 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: 3100 μαθητευσατε μαθητεύω apprentice, learner, one to be A disciple one who imitates his example 1484 εθνει/νων Gentiles So it is apparent that 'in the name of' has the meaning of ‘in the authority of’ or 'with the authority of', but 'into the name of' has a very narrow meaning, namely that the candidate ends up wearing that name as a christened family name. The candidate takes that name for himself as a kind of spiritual surname. The Greek preposition for ‘in’ is en, and it takes the dative tw onomati. The Greek preposition for ‘into’ is eiV and it takes the accusative to onoma Every single existing Greek Manuscript of the bible containing this verse (the Siniaticus, the Alexandrinus, The Vatican B, The Codex Rescriptus the Codex Bezae and all the relevant Papyri) has the Greek word 'eiV' meaning 'into' rather than the Greek word 'en' meaning 'in'. For being baptised into someone's name is gaining another surname which is 'being christened spiritually' which is the entering into a covenant. So now from one tiny word 'into' rather than the mistranslation 'in' we have related christening to the covenant. A christening is a spiritual baptism and cleansing for entrance into the covenant. And having heard they were christened into the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19:5) In Acts 2 and Acts 8, the proselytes and the Samaritans respectively were baptised in water, not in spirit, so they were not baptised into the name of Jesus but actually into the name of John the baptist 2 And he said to them: Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers? They said to him: Why we have never heard whether there is a holy spirit. 3 And he said into what therefore (eiV ti oun) were you baptised. They said into the baptism of John. 4 Paul said: John baptised with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is in Jesus. 5 Having heard this, they were christened into the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19). The point here is that Paul used words showing that the christening (baptism)is into a name. Paul merely conferred the gifts of the spirit upon them by laying his hands on them. For example, the sons of Israel who left Egypt were christened into the name of Moses: kai panteV eiV ton Mwushn ebaptisanto en th nefelh kai en th qalassh and all into the Moses they were christened in the cloud and in the sea (1 Corinthians 10:2). And this process, the christening, is a cleansing for entrance into the covenant mediated by the mediator whose name one is christened into. A Direct Quote from the Bible of William Tyndle 1:14 I thank God that I christened none of you, but Crispus and Gaius, Faithfully translated by: William Tyndle and friends. translate.reference.com/translate?query=... βαπτίζω= christen English - Greek Technical Dictionary βαπτίζω= christen educate, train Christen Origin: OE crīstnian 'make Christian', from crīsten 'Christian', from L. Christianus, from Christus 'Christ' Christian Origin: ME: from L. Christianus, from Christus 'Christ'. I hope this is not to difficult for some to accept, however, The literal translation of Mt 28:19 “Therefore, going forth apprentice all Gentiles, christening them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: 20 teaching them….”
Considering the mistranslation error of the CEB it could hardly be acceptable to baptize a nation, that would take a lot of water. Further, to “make disciples” is not portraying the correct meaning of the word μαθητευσατε, which is to be an apprentice or learner.
CEB Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
KJV 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit:
3100 μαθητευσατε μαθητεύω apprentice, learner, one to be A disciple one who imitates his example
1484 εθνει/νων Gentiles
So it is apparent that ‘in the name of’ has the meaning of ‘in the authority of’ or ‘with the authority of’, but ‘into the name of’ has a very narrow meaning, namely that the candidate ends up wearing that name as a christened family name. The candidate takes that name for himself as a kind of spiritual surname.
The Greek preposition for ‘in’ is en, and it takes the dative tw onomati. The Greek preposition for ‘into’ is eiV and it takes the accusative to onoma
Every single existing Greek Manuscript of the bible containing this verse (the Siniaticus, the Alexandrinus, The Vatican B, The Codex Rescriptus the Codex Bezae and all the relevant Papyri) has the Greek word ‘eiV’ meaning ‘into’ rather than the Greek word ‘en’ meaning ‘in’.
For being baptised into someone’s name is gaining another surname which is ‘being christened spiritually’ which is the entering into a covenant. So now from one tiny word ‘into’ rather than the mistranslation ‘in’ we have related christening to the covenant. A christening is a spiritual baptism and cleansing for entrance into the covenant.
And having heard they were christened into the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19:5)
In Acts 2 and Acts 8, the proselytes and the Samaritans respectively were baptised in water, not in spirit, so they were not baptised into the name of Jesus but actually into the name of John the baptist
2 And he said to them: Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers? They said to him: Why we have never heard whether there is a holy spirit.
3 And he said into what therefore (eiV ti oun) were you baptised. They said into the baptism of John.
4 Paul said: John baptised with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is in Jesus.
5 Having heard this, they were christened into the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19).
The point here is that Paul used words showing that the christening (baptism)is into a name. Paul merely conferred the gifts of the spirit upon them by laying his hands on them.
For example, the sons of Israel who left Egypt were christened into the name of Moses:

kai panteV eiV ton Mwushn ebaptisanto en th nefelh kai en th qalassh
and all into the Moses they were christened in the cloud and in the sea (1 Corinthians 10:2).
And this process, the christening, is a cleansing for entrance into the covenant mediated by the mediator whose name one is christened into.
A Direct Quote from the Bible of William Tyndle

1:14 I thank God that I christened none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,
Faithfully translated by: William Tyndle and friends.

translate.reference.com/translate?query=… βαπτίζω= christen
English – Greek Technical Dictionary βαπτίζω= christen educate, train

Christen Origin: OE crīstnian ‘make Christian’, from crīsten ‘Christian’, from L. Christianus, from Christus ‘Christ’

Christian Origin: ME: from L. Christianus, from Christus ‘Christ’.

]]> By: LeRoy http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15583 LeRoy Sun, 15 Nov 2009 01:12:28 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15583 Thanks Gary Simmons, However: The word is actually translated “souvenir” 1760 ενγυμεομαι enthumeomai en-thoo-meh'-om-ahee the Origin: C18: from Fr., from souvenir ‘remember’, from L. subvenire ‘occur to the mind’ Mr Strong's Concordance says: from a compound of 1722 and 2372; TDNT-3:172,339; v AV-think 3; 3 1) to bring to mind, revolve in mind, 1761 ενθυμησις keepsake, remembrance, memento, reminder, souvenir recollection See: A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research BY A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., LL.D., LITT.D. DYNAMIC (DEPONENT) MIDDLE. There is the utmost freedom in the matter in the N.T. Not all the “deponents” of mental action are middles in the aorist. Cf. βούλομαι, ἐνθυμέομαι, ἐπιμελέομαι, εὐλαβέομαι. These are commonly called passive deponents in the present as well as in the aorist and future, but the matter is not clear by any means ἱνατί (cf. Mt. 9:4; Lu. 13:7). It is common in LXX. It is not unknown in Attic Greek. W.-Sch., p. 240. Mullach MULLACH, F., Grammatik d. griech. Vulgarsprache (1856). Το γινάτι βγάζει μάτι -> cut off one's nose to spite one's face; Thanks Gary Simmons, However:

The word is actually translated “souvenir”
1760 ενγυμεομαι enthumeomai en-thoo-meh’-om-ahee
the Origin: C18: from Fr., from souvenir ‘remember’, from L. subvenire ‘occur to the mind’

Mr Strong’s Concordance says: from a compound of 1722 and 2372; TDNT-3:172,339; v

AV-think 3; 3 1) to bring to mind, revolve in mind,

1761 ενθυμησις keepsake, remembrance, memento, reminder, souvenir recollection
See:
A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of
Historical Research
BY A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., LL.D., LITT.D.
DYNAMIC (DEPONENT) MIDDLE.
There is the utmost freedom in the matter in the N.T. Not all the “deponents” of mental action are middles in the aorist. Cf. βούλομαι, ἐνθυμέομαι, ἐπιμελέομαι, εὐλαβέομαι. These are commonly called passive deponents in the present as well as in the aorist and future, but the matter is not clear by any means

ἱνατί (cf. Mt. 9:4; Lu. 13:7). It is common in LXX. It is not unknown in Attic Greek.
W.-Sch., p. 240.
Mullach MULLACH, F., Grammatik d. griech. Vulgarsprache (1856).
Το γινάτι βγάζει μάτι -> cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face;

]]> By: Gary Simmons http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15581 Gary Simmons Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:12:55 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15581 LeRoy: I'm confused. Are you using a <i>modern</i> Greek dictionary? γινατι is not a biblical word; and enthumeomai is primarily about thought, whether the thought is grounded in reality or imagination. Though modern Greek is interesting, it's definitely not the same language. Nor is Attic, for that matter. I don't think that translation even really makes sense. They were thinking something in the present, not remembering something from the past. LeRoy: I’m confused. Are you using a modern Greek dictionary? γινατι is not a biblical word; and enthumeomai is primarily about thought, whether the thought is grounded in reality or imagination.

Though modern Greek is interesting, it’s definitely not the same language. Nor is Attic, for that matter. I don’t think that translation even really makes sense. They were thinking something in the present, not remembering something from the past.

]]> By: LeRoy http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15579 LeRoy Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:38:46 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15579 It seem to read better this way: And knowing their recollection, Jesus says: Obstinacy 'occurs to mind' the evils in your hearts? καὶ ἰδὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς τὰς ἐνθυμήσεις αὐτῶν εἶπεν, ἱνατί ἐνθυμεῖσθε πονηρὰ ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν; So I would then translate it as: And knowing their recollection, Jesus says: Your obstinacy ‘imagines’ evils in the hearts. 1760 ενθύμεσμαι memory, saved mental impression; memento, keepsake, souvenir Origin: C18: from Fr., from souvenir 'remember', from L. subvenire 'occur to the mind'. 1761 ενθυμησις keepsake, remembrance, memento, reminder, souvenir recollection 2444 ινατι= γινατι obstinacy, pigheadedness It seem to read better this way:
And knowing their recollection, Jesus says: Obstinacy ‘occurs to mind’ the evils in your hearts?
καὶ ἰδὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς τὰς ἐνθυμήσεις αὐτῶν εἶπεν, ἱνατί ἐνθυμεῖσθε πονηρὰ ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν;

So I would then translate it as:
And knowing their recollection, Jesus says: Your obstinacy ‘imagines’ evils in the hearts.

1760 ενθύμεσμαι memory, saved mental impression; memento, keepsake, souvenir Origin: C18: from Fr., from souvenir ‘remember’, from L. subvenire ‘occur to the mind’.

1761 ενθυμησις keepsake, remembrance, memento, reminder, souvenir recollection

2444 ινατι= γινατι obstinacy, pigheadedness

]]> By: Michael Nicholls http://betterbibles.com/2009/11/04/blog-feedback-for-ceb-matthew/#comment-15563 Michael Nicholls Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:26:30 +0000 http://betterbibles.com/?p=3670#comment-15563 I don't think anyone yet has commented on the use of 'play-actors' in the place of 'hypocrites'. Although I realise that this is an etymological translation of 'hypocrites', I'm pretty sure the word in the 1st century meant 'One who says one thing and does another', much like we use the word 'hypocrite' today. The English word 'hypocrite' is still very well known and used. When I stop and think about 'play-actor', I'm not exactly sure what it means. An actor in a play? Someone who pretends to be an actor (which is acting to be an actor??)? I'm wondering what kind of feedback was given about this term, and how people interpreted it. I'd stick with the more common 'hypocrites' than the possibly confusing, and uncommon, 'play-actors'. I don’t think anyone yet has commented on the use of ‘play-actors’ in the place of ‘hypocrites’. Although I realise that this is an etymological translation of ‘hypocrites’, I’m pretty sure the word in the 1st century meant ‘One who says one thing and does another’, much like we use the word ‘hypocrite’ today.

The English word ‘hypocrite’ is still very well known and used. When I stop and think about ‘play-actor’, I’m not exactly sure what it means. An actor in a play? Someone who pretends to be an actor (which is acting to be an actor??)? I’m wondering what kind of feedback was given about this term, and how people interpreted it. I’d stick with the more common ‘hypocrites’ than the possibly confusing, and uncommon, ‘play-actors’.

]]>