I’m surprised Luke 14:26 in the TNIV hasn’t been mentioned. In order to avoid `his’ the TNIV has Jesus saying that would-be disciples must “hate father and mother… — yes, even life itself —…” Surely that misconstrues the meaning by losing the link made by the possessive pronoun. To put it another way, hating life is not a condition of discipleship.

I actually don’t think so. When I read, “Bill hated life itself,” I understand it to mean that Bill hated his life. It’s true that a perfectly literal reading of the line might imply that Bill hated all life: his own, other people’s, animal, plant, etc. But I think to “hate life itself” means “hating one’s own life,” at least in my dialect.

(The NLT has another nice solution. The whole thing is in second person.)

-Joel

I’m surprised Luke 14:26 in the TNIV hasn’t been mentioned. In order to avoid ‘his’ the TNIV has Jesus saying that would-be disciples must ‘hate father and mother… — yes, even life itself — …” Surely that misconstrues the meaning by losing the link made by the possessive pronoun. To put it another way, hating life is not a condition of discipleship.

Good point, Doug. Please enter it on the NIV revision suggestions website so it will get to the NIV revision team.

Of course, the “his” of the NIV is inaccurate for most English speakers today. For them “his” is masculine in its unmarked (normal) meaning. But that Greek possessive pronoun is referring back to Greek TIS which means ‘anyone’ and is gendered for neither male or female (or neuter) for that matter. So we have a problem for English, the same problem which English speakers have recognized for centuries. One of the solutions English speakers have used for centuries is the indefinite (in this case its meaning is not plural, but, rather indefinite) “they”. Perhaps you have heard this used as in the sentence, “Whoever has brought ____ Bible to church today, please open it to Luke 14:26.” What is the word most English speakers most naturally put in the blank so that the pronoun refers to ‘whoever’ regardless of whether they are male or female?

So, I agree with you that dropping of a possessive pronoun does miss part of the Greek meaning about whose life is to be “hated.” But then we are faced with the dilemma in contemporary English of what pronoun to use to refer back to the indefinite TIS ‘anyone’ (whether man or woman).

NIV: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

HCSB: “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

Maybe an adjustment to this passage similar to what the HCSB has done? On a personal note, I like “whoever” better than “everyone” form some reason.

Rich

NIV/TNIV: “If you forgive the sins of anyone, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

The second sentence really is not a translation at all (ESV fails on this as well).

NRSV could provide the proper and readable translation:

“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Michael, I agree with your improvements to Claude’s over-literal rendering. Or perhaps “she will give him the name”.