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	<title>Comments on: The production of the TNIV/NIV Bible&#8211;the Standard of Integrity</title>
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	<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/</link>
	<description>ideas for improving Bible translations</description>
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		<title>By: What will the updated NIV look like? - Gentle Wisdom</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-20679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What will the updated NIV look like? - Gentle Wisdom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Mar 2011 21:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-20679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] President of Publishing and Editorial Operations at Zondervan, as recently as March this year in a post at BBB: The Committee on Bible Translation (CBT) is an independent body of OT and NT scholars [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] President of Publishing and Editorial Operations at Zondervan, as recently as March this year in a post at BBB: The Committee on Bible Translation (CBT) is an independent body of OT and NT scholars [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Biblical Studies Carnival XL &#171; ἸΑΚΩΒΟΥ</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-18063</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Biblical Studies Carnival XL &#171; ἸΑΚΩΒΟΥ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 04:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-18063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Click here to learn about the production and publishing of the TNIV/NIV. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Click here to learn about the production and publishing of the TNIV/NIV. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: More on &#8220;copyright&#8221; of the Greek New Testament at Roger Pearse</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-14001</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on &#8220;copyright&#8221; of the Greek New Testament at Roger Pearse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 13:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-14001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] But the most interesting comment was by Stan Gundry of Zondervan, here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But the most interesting comment was by Stan Gundry of Zondervan, here. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Christianity and Copyright (2): The Ethical Problem at The Library Basement</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-13917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christianity and Copyright (2): The Ethical Problem at The Library Basement]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 23:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-13917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] me to a comment by Stan Gundry (editor-in-chief at Zondervan, the publisher of the NIV) concerning his views on copyright and the scriptures. His words will help guide the discussion [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] me to a comment by Stan Gundry (editor-in-chief at Zondervan, the publisher of the NIV) concerning his views on copyright and the scriptures. His words will help guide the discussion [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-13680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Kirk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-13680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe, do you have examples of &quot;prophecies about Jesus ... [which] are plural in the TNIV and singular in the Hebrew&quot;? I&#039;m trying to work out if this is something that TNIV has actually done, or if it is an example of disinformation or Chinese whispers style exaggeration.

I guess you will quote to me Psalm 8:4-6. But this is NOT, as is very clear from the context, a prophecy about Jesus. The Hebrew words literally translated &quot;son of man&quot; in the Old Testament never refer to Jesus, but refer to humanity in general and sometimes (especially in Ezekiel) to a contemporary individual. Daniel 7:13 is Aramaic using different vocabulary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, do you have examples of &#8220;prophecies about Jesus &#8230; [which] are plural in the TNIV and singular in the Hebrew&#8221;? I&#8217;m trying to work out if this is something that TNIV has actually done, or if it is an example of disinformation or Chinese whispers style exaggeration.</p>
<p>I guess you will quote to me Psalm 8:4-6. But this is NOT, as is very clear from the context, a prophecy about Jesus. The Hebrew words literally translated &#8220;son of man&#8221; in the Old Testament never refer to Jesus, but refer to humanity in general and sometimes (especially in Ezekiel) to a contemporary individual. Daniel 7:13 is Aramaic using different vocabulary.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Nicholls</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-13679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Nicholls]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-13679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;but it has extremely low to almost know usage among the common people.&lt;/i&gt;

Really? I would have thought it&#039;s almost &lt;i&gt;always&lt;/i&gt; used by the common people. I &lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt; hear &quot;Can the driver of the blue Volkswagen Beetle please move his car...&quot;

If one of your friends used it in conversation would you tell them they&#039;re wrong?

;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>but it has extremely low to almost know usage among the common people.</i></p>
<p>Really? I would have thought it&#8217;s almost <i>always</i> used by the common people. I <i>never</i> hear &#8220;Can the driver of the blue Volkswagen Beetle please move his car&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>If one of your friends used it in conversation would you tell them they&#8217;re wrong?<br />
 <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-13675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-13675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the number is specified somewhere else in the sentence it sounds incorrect, but is mostly understandable. If the number isn&#039;t elsewhere in the sentence then it&#039;s not even understandable.

I understand it&#039;s in dictionaries, and even used by a small segment of the scholarly elite--but it has extremely low to almost know usage among the common people. At least I wouldn&#039;t understand it to mean plural, or my friends.

Especially when prophecies about Jesus (especially when they are quoted in the New Testament) are plural in the TNIV and singular in the Hebrew then I feel it goes a little to far :(]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the number is specified somewhere else in the sentence it sounds incorrect, but is mostly understandable. If the number isn&#8217;t elsewhere in the sentence then it&#8217;s not even understandable.</p>
<p>I understand it&#8217;s in dictionaries, and even used by a small segment of the scholarly elite&#8211;but it has extremely low to almost know usage among the common people. At least I wouldn&#8217;t understand it to mean plural, or my friends.</p>
<p>Especially when prophecies about Jesus (especially when they are quoted in the New Testament) are plural in the TNIV and singular in the Hebrew then I feel it goes a little to far <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stan McCullars</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-13674</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stan McCullars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-13674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe,
Do you have a dictionary? If it&#039;s less than 20 or so years old it will list the singular they as acceptable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,<br />
Do you have a dictionary? If it&#8217;s less than 20 or so years old it will list the singular they as acceptable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Nicholls</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-13671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Nicholls]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-13671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today I was watching a (aussie rules) football show where the male coach said to the all-male players:

&quot;The first person who scores... I will buy them a beer!&quot;

It&#039;s not the first time I&#039;ve noticed the use of &#039;they/them&#039; when the gender in question is actually quite clear. I guess you could say that in English the indefiniteness of the antecedent overpowers the genderness. People avoid &#039;he/him, she/her&#039; because it makes the antecedent too specific. It&#039;s a discourse feature of English. Other languages have other ways to deal with this.

But in English we do this:

&quot;The first person who scores... I will buy them a beer!&quot;

&quot;Johnny scored a goal.&quot;

&quot;Great, I&#039;ll buy him a beer.&quot;

The thing that changes is the definiteness of the antecedent. In the first case it&#039;s unknown, in the second it&#039;s known. We&#039;d hardly accuse a football coach of having a feminist agenda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today I was watching a (aussie rules) football show where the male coach said to the all-male players:</p>
<p>&#8220;The first person who scores&#8230; I will buy them a beer!&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the first time I&#8217;ve noticed the use of &#8216;they/them&#8217; when the gender in question is actually quite clear. I guess you could say that in English the indefiniteness of the antecedent overpowers the genderness. People avoid &#8216;he/him, she/her&#8217; because it makes the antecedent too specific. It&#8217;s a discourse feature of English. Other languages have other ways to deal with this.</p>
<p>But in English we do this:</p>
<p>&#8220;The first person who scores&#8230; I will buy them a beer!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Johnny scored a goal.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Great, I&#8217;ll buy him a beer.&#8221;</p>
<p>The thing that changes is the definiteness of the antecedent. In the first case it&#8217;s unknown, in the second it&#8217;s known. We&#8217;d hardly accuse a football coach of having a feminist agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/#comment-13668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Leman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.com/?p=3013#comment-13668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Re-branding isn’t the issue. “They” is not standard for singular yet, and IBS shouldn’t use it. To most people it’s still a plural pronoun, making the TNIV inaccurate.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, &quot;they&quot; is grammatically a third person plural pronoun. But for millions of English speakers, it also serves as a gender-neutral pronoun which takes an indefinite pronoun as its antecedent. I suspect that a majority of English speakers today use &quot;they&quot; in this way as an indefinite pronoun. When it serves in this way, it is semantically neither a plural nor a singular. Instead it is at that point an indefinite, just as are other English pronouns such as everyone, everybody, anyone, someone, no one, etc.

Notice which pronoun is used by most English speakers today, at least when speaking, and often when writing in indefinite contexts. Fill in the blank in the following sentences with the pronoun (his, her, he, she, their, them, they, you, your, our, us, etc.) which is most commonly used by your neighbor, Jim Dobson, C.S. Lewis, and many others:

1. If everyone turns in ____ book report on time, I will treat the class with pizza.

2. Someone is at the door. I wonder who ____ are.

3. Any nurse who wishes to keep ____ job must maintain an accurate log of medicines administered to each patient.

4. If anyone will welcome me when I knock on ____ door, I&#039;ll have a wonderful dinner with ____.

5. If I find out who took my saw and didn&#039;t return it, I&#039;ll make ____ clean my wood shop for the next month.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Re-branding isn’t the issue. “They” is not standard for singular yet, and IBS shouldn’t use it. To most people it’s still a plural pronoun, making the TNIV inaccurate.</i></p>
<p>Yes, &#8220;they&#8221; is grammatically a third person plural pronoun. But for millions of English speakers, it also serves as a gender-neutral pronoun which takes an indefinite pronoun as its antecedent. I suspect that a majority of English speakers today use &#8220;they&#8221; in this way as an indefinite pronoun. When it serves in this way, it is semantically neither a plural nor a singular. Instead it is at that point an indefinite, just as are other English pronouns such as everyone, everybody, anyone, someone, no one, etc.</p>
<p>Notice which pronoun is used by most English speakers today, at least when speaking, and often when writing in indefinite contexts. Fill in the blank in the following sentences with the pronoun (his, her, he, she, their, them, they, you, your, our, us, etc.) which is most commonly used by your neighbor, Jim Dobson, C.S. Lewis, and many others:</p>
<p>1. If everyone turns in ____ book report on time, I will treat the class with pizza.</p>
<p>2. Someone is at the door. I wonder who ____ are.</p>
<p>3. Any nurse who wishes to keep ____ job must maintain an accurate log of medicines administered to each patient.</p>
<p>4. If anyone will welcome me when I knock on ____ door, I&#8217;ll have a wonderful dinner with ____.</p>
<p>5. If I find out who took my saw and didn&#8217;t return it, I&#8217;ll make ____ clean my wood shop for the next month.</p>
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