<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Versification Complications</title>
	<atom:link href="http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/</link>
	<description>ideas for improving Bible translations</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 05:25:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dr. Platypus &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Biblical Studies Carnival XXXIX</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12890</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Platypus &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Biblical Studies Carnival XXXIX]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] and translators sometimes muck up our Bibles through &#8220;Dissection Headings&#8221; and &#8220;Versification Complications.&#8221; You can find the details at the always-worth-a-look Better Bibles [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and translators sometimes muck up our Bibles through &#8220;Dissection Headings&#8221; and &#8220;Versification Complications.&#8221; You can find the details at the always-worth-a-look Better Bibles [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Sangrey</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12881</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sangrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12881</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding chiasm in Philippians.  Phil. 2:1-18 is the big one.  :-)  Though many would probably be more comfortable limiting it to just 6-11.

And speaking of verse breaks, this highlights another awkward case where a verse break would actually be helpful (I thought I would &lt;b&gt;never&lt;/b&gt; say that).  It&#039;s 2:8.  The θανάτου δὲ σταυροῦ (&quot;--a cross kind of death&quot;) should be by itself.  2:8 is the exact center of the chiasm.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding chiasm in Philippians.  Phil. 2:1-18 is the big one.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Though many would probably be more comfortable limiting it to just 6-11.</p>
<p>And speaking of verse breaks, this highlights another awkward case where a verse break would actually be helpful (I thought I would <b>never</b> say that).  It&#8217;s 2:8.  The θανάτου δὲ σταυροῦ (&#8220;&#8211;a cross kind of death&#8221;) should be by itself.  2:8 is the exact center of the chiasm.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Ker</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Ker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Mike. God has given us such peace despite the car breaking down. We&#039;re trusting him to get us down the road!

I didn&#039;t see this chiasm noted by any of the commentaries I have access to. Makes me want to search for more in Philippians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Mike. God has given us such peace despite the car breaking down. We&#8217;re trusting him to get us down the road!</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see this chiasm noted by any of the commentaries I have access to. Makes me want to search for more in Philippians.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Ker</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12879</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Ker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12879</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hadn&#039;t noticed that!

After I posted this I re-read Philippians and Paul mentions the Lord&#039;s return a lot. And always at the end of a section. So, though I like viewing this as spatial it seems more likely that it is temporal. This also reminded me of James 5:9, &quot;Don&#039;t grumble against each other, brothers or you will be judged The Judge is standing at the door!&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t noticed that!</p>
<p>After I posted this I re-read Philippians and Paul mentions the Lord&#8217;s return a lot. And always at the end of a section. So, though I like viewing this as spatial it seems more likely that it is temporal. This also reminded me of James 5:9, &#8220;Don&#8217;t grumble against each other, brothers or you will be judged The Judge is standing at the door!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Sangrey</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sangrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think J.K. Gayle is onto something.  This text is somewhat chiastic with the key phrase ὁ κύριος ἐγγύς right in the middle.  The A-B-C-B&#039;-A&#039; structure can be expressed as:

A:  Rejoice!

B:  Do not attack others, but deal with them in a forbearing and gracious manner (see use of ἐπιεικής in Titus 3.2)

C:  The Lord is near

B&#039;: When attacked (or facing any danger), don&#039;t be anxious, pray with thanksgiving

A&#039;: God&#039;s peace will be yours.

Keep in mind the paragraph immediately follows the instruction to Euodia and Syntyche.  The &quot;Lord is near&quot; speaks to &lt;b&gt;both&lt;/b&gt; sides of whatever that argument was--it&#039;s rebuke and comfort.  Sort of reminds me of Isa. 7-12 where Emmanuel means both disaster AND blessing depending whether one is rebellious or submissive.

David, I&#039;ve prayed for your situation.  The beautiful thing about a chiastic structure is the central concept is the most important.  It is put there for the sole purpose of getting us to focus on it.  The Lord is near!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think J.K. Gayle is onto something.  This text is somewhat chiastic with the key phrase ὁ κύριος ἐγγύς right in the middle.  The A-B-C-B&#8217;-A&#8217; structure can be expressed as:</p>
<p>A:  Rejoice!</p>
<p>B:  Do not attack others, but deal with them in a forbearing and gracious manner (see use of ἐπιεικής in Titus 3.2)</p>
<p>C:  The Lord is near</p>
<p>B&#8217;: When attacked (or facing any danger), don&#8217;t be anxious, pray with thanksgiving</p>
<p>A&#8217;: God&#8217;s peace will be yours.</p>
<p>Keep in mind the paragraph immediately follows the instruction to Euodia and Syntyche.  The &#8220;Lord is near&#8221; speaks to <b>both</b> sides of whatever that argument was&#8211;it&#8217;s rebuke and comfort.  Sort of reminds me of Isa. 7-12 where Emmanuel means both disaster AND blessing depending whether one is rebellious or submissive.</p>
<p>David, I&#8217;ve prayed for your situation.  The beautiful thing about a chiastic structure is the central concept is the most important.  It is put there for the sole purpose of getting us to focus on it.  The Lord is near!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Ker</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Ker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jake, thanks for showing these punctuation options. Certainly punctuation and the lack of a capital letter in a verse are ways of trying to make a more explicit link despite verse numbers.

The capitalized words BECAUSE and THEREFORE are meant to show logical relations between these passages. The Greek doesn&#039;t have an explicit word showing this relation which is what makes this puzzle interesting!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake, thanks for showing these punctuation options. Certainly punctuation and the lack of a capital letter in a verse are ways of trying to make a more explicit link despite verse numbers.</p>
<p>The capitalized words BECAUSE and THEREFORE are meant to show logical relations between these passages. The Greek doesn&#8217;t have an explicit word showing this relation which is what makes this puzzle interesting!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: J. K. Gayle</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12876</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. K. Gayle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems Paul&#039;s using ὁ κύριος ἐγγύς (&quot;the Master&#039;s near&quot;) as a way to connect two similar commands with a common reward.  And as you suggest, the verse break loses the beauty of his Hebrewish-Greek poetic, parallel structure:

4 χαίρετε &lt;b&gt;ἐν&lt;/b&gt; κυρίῳ πάντοτε 
πάλιν ἐρῶ χαίρετε 
5 τὸ ἐπιεικὲς &lt;b&gt;ὑμῶν γνωσθήτω&lt;/b&gt; πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις 

ὁ κύριος ἐγγύς 

6 μηδὲν μεριμνᾶτε ἀλλ&#039; &lt;b&gt;ἐν&lt;/b&gt; παντὶ τῇ προσευχῇ 
καὶ τῇ δεήσει μετὰ εὐχαριστίας 
τὰ αἰτήματα &lt;b&gt;ὑμῶν γνωριζέσθω&lt;/b&gt; πρὸς τὸν θεόν 

7 καὶ ἡ εἰρήνη τοῦ θεοῦ ἡ ὑπερέχουσα πάντα νοῦν φρουρήσει τὰς καρδίας ὑμῶν καὶ τὰ νοήματα ὑμῶν ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ

4 Express enjoyment &lt;b&gt;in&lt;/b&gt; Master always
I say again, Express enjoyment.
5 Make your calmness known to all humans.

The Master&#039;s near.

6 Don&#039;t worry; instead &lt;b&gt;in&lt;/b&gt; all prayers
and petitions with favored blessings
make your requests known to God

7 And God&#039;s peace...

(Whether in California or in Mozambique)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems Paul&#8217;s using ὁ κύριος ἐγγύς (&#8220;the Master&#8217;s near&#8221;) as a way to connect two similar commands with a common reward.  And as you suggest, the verse break loses the beauty of his Hebrewish-Greek poetic, parallel structure:</p>
<p>4 χαίρετε <b>ἐν</b> κυρίῳ πάντοτε<br />
πάλιν ἐρῶ χαίρετε<br />
5 τὸ ἐπιεικὲς <b>ὑμῶν γνωσθήτω</b> πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις </p>
<p>ὁ κύριος ἐγγύς </p>
<p>6 μηδὲν μεριμνᾶτε ἀλλ&#8217; <b>ἐν</b> παντὶ τῇ προσευχῇ<br />
καὶ τῇ δεήσει μετὰ εὐχαριστίας<br />
τὰ αἰτήματα <b>ὑμῶν γνωριζέσθω</b> πρὸς τὸν θεόν </p>
<p>7 καὶ ἡ εἰρήνη τοῦ θεοῦ ἡ ὑπερέχουσα πάντα νοῦν φρουρήσει τὰς καρδίας ὑμῶν καὶ τὰ νοήματα ὑμῶν ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ</p>
<p>4 Express enjoyment <b>in</b> Master always<br />
I say again, Express enjoyment.<br />
5 Make your calmness known to all humans.</p>
<p>The Master&#8217;s near.</p>
<p>6 Don&#8217;t worry; instead <b>in</b> all prayers<br />
and petitions with favored blessings<br />
make your requests known to God</p>
<p>7 And God&#8217;s peace&#8230;</p>
<p>(Whether in California or in Mozambique)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12875</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/versification-complications/#comment-12875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was just reading this passage last night. I actually read &quot;The Lord is near&quot; combined with verse 6 (I&#039;m not sure if I had before now that I think about it). The ESV that I was reading the passage in used a semicolon but still put the phrase with the next sentence. This isn&#039;t the best way, but I prefer it to breaking into a new sentence, as I do believe the two go together:

&quot;The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything...&quot;

So I checked out another few translations. From what I looked at, I liked the ISV best, which used a colon after verse 5. YLT also used a semi. No translations I reviewed seemed to do anything like you suggest. 

However, I do agree that verses can really mess up how people read text. I think that the verses are put in some really strange places occasionally that changes the meaning of the text.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just reading this passage last night. I actually read &#8220;The Lord is near&#8221; combined with verse 6 (I&#8217;m not sure if I had before now that I think about it). The ESV that I was reading the passage in used a semicolon but still put the phrase with the next sentence. This isn&#8217;t the best way, but I prefer it to breaking into a new sentence, as I do believe the two go together:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>So I checked out another few translations. From what I looked at, I liked the ISV best, which used a colon after verse 5. YLT also used a semi. No translations I reviewed seemed to do anything like you suggest. </p>
<p>However, I do agree that verses can really mess up how people read text. I think that the verses are put in some really strange places occasionally that changes the meaning of the text.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

