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	<title>Comments on: Is it mean to not mean what you mean?</title>
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	<description>ideas for improving Bible translations</description>
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		<title>By: Wayne Leman</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2008/11/08/is-it-mean-to-not-mean-what-you-mean/#comment-11267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Leman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Good stuff, Mike. Clearly written. It helped me understand better what Jesus was *really* communicating to Nathanael. We miss too much of the original meaning of biblical texts when we translate &quot;only what the text says.&quot; If we don&#039;t include what the original author meant and intended his audience to understand by what he said, we have only translated part of the meaning to English or any other language. I suppose we could add a fair amount of pragmatic meaning in footnotes, but I find it easier to follow if my old eyes don&#039;t have to switch back and forth between the translated text and its footnotes.

So, I guess we need a nice wedding between pragmatics and Relevance Theory to get complete Bible translation.  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff, Mike. Clearly written. It helped me understand better what Jesus was *really* communicating to Nathanael. We miss too much of the original meaning of biblical texts when we translate &#8220;only what the text says.&#8221; If we don&#8217;t include what the original author meant and intended his audience to understand by what he said, we have only translated part of the meaning to English or any other language. I suppose we could add a fair amount of pragmatic meaning in footnotes, but I find it easier to follow if my old eyes don&#8217;t have to switch back and forth between the translated text and its footnotes.</p>
<p>So, I guess we need a nice wedding between pragmatics and Relevance Theory to get complete Bible translation.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sangrey</title>
		<link>http://betterbibles.com/2008/11/08/is-it-mean-to-not-mean-what-you-mean/#comment-11266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sangrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betterbibles.wordpress.com/?p=2198#comment-11266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Above I said, &lt;i&gt;&quot;In my opinion, an understanding of pragmatic effect is vital to the proper exegesis of this text: It is John 1:50-51.&lt;/i&gt;

Let me explore and illustrate the results of &lt;i&gt;Pragmatic Effect&lt;/i&gt; by offering a suggested translation.  To be clear, the pragmatic effect of the &quot;interruption&quot; is to create a rather substantial &#039;pause&#039;, a pregnant pause, if you will.  This strong pause places a strong emphasis on what follows.  In this case it also creates a strong adversative.  The semantic meaning of the pre-positioned, double AMEN further adds to this effect.

There&#039;s also two pieces of implicit information we need:  One, it was common practice for a relatively devout Jew to be regularly seen under a fig tree.  In other words, Nathanael being under a fig tree was not only not unusual, but highly likely.  And, two, there&#039;s an allusion to Jacob&#039;s ladder which would have been quite obvious to the original readers, especially to Nathanael.

These three observations--pregnant pause, the common practice under the fig tree, and Jacob&#039;s ladder--all have to do with pragmatics (ie. semantic meaning interacting with context).  Together, they produce a translation (into modern English and Western culture) something like the following:

&lt;i&gt;Jesus replied, &quot;I told you I saw you under a fig tree and you place your faith in me?  You believe too easily.&quot; Jesus paused for a brief moment.  &quot;Now, consider very carefully what I&#039;m about to say.  The Son of Man is the ladder by which God&#039;s messengers travel between an opened heaven and this earth.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Note:  I&#039;ve added the reference to the ladder metaphor and the phrase &lt;i&gt;&quot;between an opened heaven and this earth&quot;&lt;/i&gt; to make explicit the obvious allusion to Jacob&#039;s ladder.

The rhetorical impact of this is for Jesus, at the culmination of the Johanine introduction, to make a very strong claim about who he is.  Essentially, the claim here perfectly matches the claim in John 1:1-18.  Jesus is the conduit to carry God&#039;s message--He is God&#039;s Word to mankind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Above I said, <i>&#8220;In my opinion, an understanding of pragmatic effect is vital to the proper exegesis of this text: It is John 1:50-51.</i></p>
<p>Let me explore and illustrate the results of <i>Pragmatic Effect</i> by offering a suggested translation.  To be clear, the pragmatic effect of the &#8220;interruption&#8221; is to create a rather substantial &#8216;pause&#8217;, a pregnant pause, if you will.  This strong pause places a strong emphasis on what follows.  In this case it also creates a strong adversative.  The semantic meaning of the pre-positioned, double AMEN further adds to this effect.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also two pieces of implicit information we need:  One, it was common practice for a relatively devout Jew to be regularly seen under a fig tree.  In other words, Nathanael being under a fig tree was not only not unusual, but highly likely.  And, two, there&#8217;s an allusion to Jacob&#8217;s ladder which would have been quite obvious to the original readers, especially to Nathanael.</p>
<p>These three observations&#8211;pregnant pause, the common practice under the fig tree, and Jacob&#8217;s ladder&#8211;all have to do with pragmatics (ie. semantic meaning interacting with context).  Together, they produce a translation (into modern English and Western culture) something like the following:</p>
<p><i>Jesus replied, &#8220;I told you I saw you under a fig tree and you place your faith in me?  You believe too easily.&#8221; Jesus paused for a brief moment.  &#8220;Now, consider very carefully what I&#8217;m about to say.  The Son of Man is the ladder by which God&#8217;s messengers travel between an opened heaven and this earth.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Note:  I&#8217;ve added the reference to the ladder metaphor and the phrase <i>&#8220;between an opened heaven and this earth&#8221;</i> to make explicit the obvious allusion to Jacob&#8217;s ladder.</p>
<p>The rhetorical impact of this is for Jesus, at the culmination of the Johanine introduction, to make a very strong claim about who he is.  Essentially, the claim here perfectly matches the claim in John 1:1-18.  Jesus is the conduit to carry God&#8217;s message&#8211;He is God&#8217;s Word to mankind.</p>
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